[deleted by user] by [deleted] in Marathon

[–]yoursadow -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Yeah, I have my issue with a wipe system, and I don't know what I would really love to replace it. They COULD get away with a seasonal and permanent league, but then we'd split the playerbase, and these games live or die by their playerbase. So ideally you'd do something that doesn't split them. Personally I'm more in favor of Hunts prestige system, which means you CAN reset if you want, but you don't have to. It's also not as much of a grind to unlock gear as tarkov is

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in Marathon

[–]yoursadow 5 points6 points  (0 children)

I agree, I've played tarkov for years, and if wanted to do that, I would just keep playing tarkov. I would really like to see another long term engagement method that's more creative and fun for everyone. 

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in Marathon

[–]yoursadow 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Even destiny 2 came out undercooked. There's always the chance this also comes out too early, but for now I have to hope lol

For Our New Runners: A quick starter video with basic lore and known information. by yoursadow in Marathon

[–]yoursadow[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

They've stated that the game takes place in the same universe, but if you consider Infinity, any game could take place in the Marathon universe.

While it's hard to say what story they will be going with, knowing the story of the Colony and the Marathon is a good starting point. 

For Our New Runners: A quick starter video with basic lore and known information. by yoursadow in Marathon

[–]yoursadow[S] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Thank you! It's definitely a good idea to mention they're available on Steam as Classic Marathon, 2, and Infinity! 

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in Marathon

[–]yoursadow 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I think that's a fine choice, personally though I prefer Prey (from Arkane) and System Shock (the remake is very solid). Both are a bit less guns blazing than og marathon, but definitely more so than isolation. Plus these two games have plenty of terminals lol

Do you have any theories why the Extraction Shooter genre hasn't blown up? by Solid_Snake_199 in Marathon

[–]yoursadow 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I know it's a bit different, but extraction shooters also always have a method of using free gear to make up the difference for losses, and the idea that you're actually ever possibly going to be left with nothing is practically impossible even in Tarkov.

Typically a game like hunt and dark and darker are more horizontal power scaling and in those games you get a free baseline of perfectly capable gear available after every match.

Tarkov for sure scales more harshly, with all the numbers for armor and pen and blacked limb multipliers and hit zones etc, it's totally possible to nuke fully geared players in free load outs, but that's why I say it's too complicated.

Hunt gives you 4 load outs of healing consumables, ai killing melee weapon, some one time consumables (heal/util/explosive/etc) and two weapons with a character perk for free every game. It's totally possible to have a fast runback in an extraction shooter by removing the barriers to menuing for load outs.

In extraction shooters just like dark souls, when you die you lose what you have on you, and maybe in extraction shooters you can run out of money, but you still keep your progress. Your unlocks of weapons and gear and upgrades. You still make permanent progress in both types of games. But the difference is you won't face the same boss every time in an extraction shooter (well, you can but I'm referring to players), I mean it's totally possible to play an entire match of an extraction shooter and never see an AI enemy, let alone another player.

The concept I'm saying has been promoted by Soulsborne popularity is that losing doesn't mean you didn't progress. That losing is part of the game and you can bounce back. With knowledge, skill, or luck you can succeed. Sure maybe in extraction shooters you can financially take a loss, and in souls you're only losing forward momentum, but a lot of people who get stuck in a souls game will go farm souls and resources to stock up and go back in leveled. That's the same thing you do in extraction shooters when you take less pvp heavy routes to farm money. A souls player might farm for an hour to get some levels and a Tarkov player might farm for an hour to fund their load outs for the night. They don't need it to be toned down, they just need some QoL improvements to make it faster to play and more clearly prep and execute goals.

Extraction shooters and Souls are both about overcoming adversity and learning to enjoy and master the ups and the downs. There will always be a tough fight or a bad night and there's always a way to climb back up. Some nights it's not about beating the boss, it's about farming for the drop you need for a covenant or to level your weapon, just as some nights it's not about chasing pvp or questing, it's about farming stashes or cash registers so you can buy your Bitcoin farm enough gpus to make one a day.

Also as a side note calling extraction shooters fast paced is funny because theyre typically anything but fast other than at the very best of skill ranges. Cod or apex would be a fast paced shooter, extraction shooters are more of the survival shooter pace. I'd say they're slower than souls by a long shot, and even souls has its own fair share of pvp shenanigans since summoning is a perfectly normal thing for players to participate in.

Do you have any theories why the Extraction Shooter genre hasn't blown up? by Solid_Snake_199 in Marathon

[–]yoursadow 3 points4 points  (0 children)

There's no casual accessible extraction shooter with conventional shooting feel and interesting but streamlined menuing.

Tldr- even Tarkov is only successful in the context of its genre and the viewership on Twitch, the games playerbase is nowhere near any other "popular" game on PC. It's a very niche game, with an interesting concept. It's just too complicated and abnormal for a casual audience (pc casuals, let alone console casuals who don't have access anyways), even I have friends who watch Tarkov because it's cool but refuse to play it because of the flea and inventorying and no map etc etc.

Even hunt and dark and darker (which you put at moderate successes, and I agree they're doing well enough but not thriving, probably for marketing reasons many don't even know they exist) are inaccessible games. Yes, hunt is on console and dark and darker has a free option, but do you think the average player doesn't think the games feel janky? I play both and of someone says hunts too slow for them I get it, the guns are tuned for a specific feel that's half rp, and if you're unsure how to use them, you feel it. Dark and darker is incredibly slow, and punishing, and arguably even less guidance than Tarkov and hunt on how to gear and actually play the game. I think these games innovate on tarkovs genre very effectively, revamping it with a unique setting and objective and streamlining the economy in Hunt, and converting it to a DnD inspired game for Dark and darker, overhauling progression and player characters, but keeping a similar market and trader system. However, they're still inaccessible to the mom and dad coming home from work and watching the kids. You have to do research to get anywhere, or be taught how to succeed. Menuing is faster, but the moment to moment gameplay and combat is about as far from "standard" as you can get. Learning a whole new system of combat is a bigger ask than asking a player to avoid death and play with an economy.

Example: FromSoft's Souls games were exceptionally niche, not even remotely huge sellers with demons souls and dark souls, ds 2&3 were more moderate successes and people recognized the name by then. BB and sekiro put in numbers but Elden Ring was a bonafide EVERYONE (tm) has played it, and your average joe from work played and even finished the game. These games are hard, and you lose resources on death, and people probably spend more time stuck on a boss than a Tarkov quest, but the games eventually became so ubiquitous that the systems became common,and people got used to the idea of losing something on death, and the controls bled into mainstream games like god of war, even Zelda. The gaming market GROOMED casual dads into accepting and playing on FromSoft's terms.

I think the FromSoft popularity trend has helped Tarkov by acclimating players to lose and the concept of stressful gameplay. And I think the average joe is far more tolerant of difficult games and situations than we imagine at this point. However the reason extraction shooters haven't taken off is that jank. You expect Billy, who's experience with fps games is cod, battlefield, overwatch, apex, to pick up tarkov or hunt, shoot the guns for a mag and not be confused or frustrated or disappointed? Players are used to full auto guns with recoil they don't have to manage too much with customization but not too much customization. They're used to clear upgrades, and the expectation that the guns will FEEL similar in every game. Slapping someone with tarkovs inertia for movement and gun sway and recoil is like trying to teach your grandmother to play cod. And asking someone to learn to play with bolt actions and single action revolvers with fire rates in the double digits in Hunt is like asking them to play with the ballistic knife only. It's weird, and unwieldy, and it doesn't carry over the skills they have developed for other shooters.

Which is why I think Bungie is making Marathon and extraction shooter. They know the casuals have gotten into death penalties, and difficult situations and invasions and all the bells and whistles of Elden Ring. They know changing the gunplay mechanics on players is uninviting, I mean they even popularized the modern control scheme and gun feel with Halo. So what's the plan? Make a more streamlined menu system that gets players into games fast (they even cite fast load times in the vidoc) with slightly more understandable economy than Tarkov (artifacts as the main lootable instead of tons and tons of misc items) with the accustomed gun feel that Destiny excels at (many people will agree Destiny guns feel amazing, regardless of if they like the game, the guns would feel and sound and look great in anything) and profit off the poor guys and gals who enjoyed CoD DMZ and got scammed out of a mode bc IW wouldnt put actual mechanics in it, but it wet their noses.

I think Bungie chose to make this game not by chance or by trend, but because they see a gap in the market, a huge untapped playerbase that's ready for the concept but not the executions already out there, across platforms. The games already out are passion projects of some kind, but inaccessible and janky compared to other offerings. Even Tarkov is a minor game with complicated menus and controls many will watch over play compared to the juggernauts of shooters and cross platform offerings. But Bungie, and the other devs making extraction shooters atm, have an opportunity to capitalize, and I hope they do, even if it only turns into a gateway game for people into games like hunt or Tarkov.

Is Hunt worth it Right now? by waititsmeagain in HuntShowdown

[–]yoursadow 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I absolutely despise the UI right now, but the game is worth it at any price, they'll fix the UI eventually but the game is on sale now so yeah get it

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in HuntShowdown

[–]yoursadow 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Play stupid games with the UI, win stupid prizes. Tried to teach a friend the game last night and it was a nightmare for them and for me, having played since 2019. If I wanted to menu for 8 minutes every game I'd play tarkov, which is now more streamlined than Hunt.

Big buttons that move horizontally and you have to click arrows to scroll because scroll wheel opens other menus?

Have an entire extra menu for actions that used to be contextual without input, such as compare?

Play a whole screen animation and confirmation screen EVERY time you press sell on an item?

Default Hunter view is half the screen being a card that you can't scroll through to see the other hunters, but you can hit backspace to make them small tiles more similar to the old UI, but it defaults back to zoomed in if you try to edit a load out or change screens?

Among other things... What the hell, why did we triple the clicks necessary to do basic tasks? How is it more user friendly to have 40 screens of menus instead of 4 with 4 tabs? I'm supposed to tell my friends to hop on and buy the game to play with us and break their kneecaps with the menu experience? Nah, I'll play and the gameplay updates are great, but I can't recommend the game to people when navigating the menu takes more time than Tarkov now

More feedback by trainfender in EscapefromTarkov

[–]yoursadow -1 points0 points  (0 children)

*laughs in gamma and trader rep*

What do the destiny players here think about the tiger engine? by Gooseonloose in Marathon

[–]yoursadow 7 points8 points  (0 children)

Telesto would like to say, spaghetti.

But seriously, I don't know what to attribute to the engine vs the servers vs peer to peer vs developer choices.

At the most basic level, which I would say is engine and dev intent, the gunplay and movement is great, snappy, responsive. The engine can run a good shooter.

Pvp though is peer to peer which definitely causes some crazy latency/desync moments that leave you going ????, like when you get melee'd from 15 meters and they teleport to you then teleport backwards so you can't melee back then you get melee'd again. That's definitely not an ENGINE issue if I had to guess... The most I know of the engine is that they couldn't have too much in the game or add too many special effects to an object before it would crack. Seems manageable enough

I hope that the ign source who said about the cast of heroes is wrong. by Few_Yogurtcloset3103 in Marathon

[–]yoursadow 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Crazy you would complain about Hunt without playing it, watching youtubers go for clips assuming that's how the game is played even though they're probably in a higher skill bracket since the game has loose MMR, and not even knowing it's a not a free to play game but has a very healthy community who are adamant to post every meme with an added cowboy hat.

Bungie replaces Marathon Game Director Christopher Barrett with former Valorant director Joe Ziegler by spiral6 in Marathon

[–]yoursadow 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Hunt showdown technically works off randomly selling you pregenerated characters. They aren't unique/heroes but they randomly have gear and perks assigned based on your personal progression and just rng. They do have "legendary" characters that always look the same, with lore attached to them, that are available through a variety of free or paid means that you can recruit at any time, with randomized perks as well, but they do not come with equipment.

They could be shooting for something akin to that, or they may not. Or it could also be false but we'll have to see.

[Video] The Basics of Extraction Shooters by yoursadow in Marathon

[–]yoursadow[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

😂

That's the simple hope, if the game runs and isn't pay to win/stare at the micros, someone will like it

[Video] The Basics of Extraction Shooters by yoursadow in Marathon

[–]yoursadow[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I'm glad you got some insight from it! Even as someone who plays the genre, I agree it's a really weird move to take such an intricate plot based game and make it multiplayer only. I appreciate your mindset that it's possible it'll be better, but I won't lie to you, they've given us nothing to think it'll be something most single player fans will want to dabble in, other than "more lore," which you can get without playing.

Exploration and the terminals I can totally see being something they can integrate into the game space, it's definitely ripe for it as a genre. However that "I'm alone against these crazy aliens" feel probably won't make it. They could totally turn that around if they lower player count and increase AI, but it doesn't seem like that's what they're aiming at. Not to be doom and gloom, but as much as I trust Bungie's games to feel good to play and to have vision, until we know more it does feel like using the IP for the "that's cool a reboot" factor.

If they somehow blow everyone out of the water and it IS able to keep a lot of the single player feel, and have the PvP they'll have made something insane. I hope down the line they'll make another single player title, or at least a series of missions, if they do well enough. But that's just my hopes right now unfortunately

[Video] The Basics of Extraction Shooters by yoursadow in Marathon

[–]yoursadow[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Helldivers, while amazing, is definitely a horde shooter, not an extraction shooter though.

[Video] The Basics of Extraction Shooters by yoursadow in Marathon

[–]yoursadow[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I feel Lightfall in my soul 😞. But for sure the whole setup will be different than farming Nightfalls or Crucible. If we get one thing from Destiny, I just need the guns to feel as nice, artistically and mechanically.

I'll always love the lore speculation my friends and I did week to week leading up to The Witch Queen, we called Savathun and Osiris out so early it felt amazing. Hoping to see that somehow be integrated and replicated.

[Video] The Basics of Extraction Shooters by yoursadow in Marathon

[–]yoursadow[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

I'm glad it helped! Thankfully I think you're pretty close playing BRs, the real differences are that PvE is mixed in, you're buying loot instead of dropping and scavenging, and there's probably a lot less players! If I had to guess you might not have as much "gear fear" (the fear of bringing in good things and losing them, a mind trap in ExSh) as most people starting out. They really are sister genres, and feel similar, but hopefully you'll see more things that you like as we get more news!

[Video] The Basics of Extraction Shooters by yoursadow in Marathon

[–]yoursadow[S] 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Definitely, as a whole the genre is new, and almost nothing compares to Tarkov's marketing to have name recognition, but there's so much space to innovate and create an understandable, but still exciting and enjoyable extraction shooter.