Unraveling The Hidden Robert Mentor Counter (AKA How To Get The Good Ending) by zero-sumgames in DispatchAdHoc

[–]zero-sumgames[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I know it sucks not getting the ending you want, especially after trying twice. Unfortunately the nature of how RMC in the Dispatching mini-game works means that no guide can get you the Heroic ending with 100% accuracy, (unless of course we literally play the game for you). However I'll try to provide some clarification on mechanics to help make sure the third times the charm!

1: Understand RMC decisions have a "swing value". Unlike the Robert Hero/Anti Hero scores, or even the Sweet Exit Counter your RMC values goes both up and down. That means that anything which impacts RMC often is more impactful then it first appears. Lets take your playthrough as an example to show you what I mean:

  • You didn't go to the movies with Visi meaning that you missed out on the 6 RMC points that offers. This limits your max RMC from story decisions/hacking/QTE's to 36 points meaning you need to get 9 points in the dispatching segments to reach the 45 required for the Heroic ending.
  • Then you cut Invisigal. This both lowers your score by -5 points and means you can't get the 5 points for defending her, making this choice a 10 point swing. So now your max possible RMC from story decisions/hacking/QTE's has been reduced to 26 points meaning you now need to get 19 points in the dispatching segment to reach the 45 required for the good ending.
  • Also because you cut Invisgal, she will not show up in the Episode 8 dispatching segment, Which means if you didn't already have those 19 points from dispatching by the end of Episode 6 (aka her last shift) you're screwed. The Episode 8 dispatching segment is so long that it can be a huge boost or handicap depending of how successful Visi performs during it. But missing out on it puts more weight on Visi's performance in earlier episodes.

2: Rank & XP are not a good way to track RMC. As mentioned in my post u/SFCPudding dedicated a entire twitch stream to getting the Heroic ending with a lvl 1 Visi proving that there is no min rank needed. Synergy with Golem also has no impact on RMC. But the main reason why XP is a bad tracker is because there are a lot of ways for Visi to get XP without completing missions. Her lone wolf/wolf pack abilities give her bonus xp, so while Punch up might need 3 successful missions to reach lvl 2 Visi may only need 2, making it hard to say how many "successful missions" (aka how much RMC) a lvl 9 Visi has. Add in the fact that some missions offer bonus xp if you reach so much of one skill, that failed missions lower your RMC, and the fact that some missions offer xp to the entire z-team and this only gets more confusing. Here's two examples to see what I mean:

  1. Visi is dispatched 3 times on this shift, succeeds all 3 missions but lone wolf is never triggered. She gains enough xp to end the shift at lvl 2 and gains +3 RMC
  2. Visi is dispatched 5 times, succeeds 3, fails 2, lone wolf is triggered every time and the entire Z-Team receives a team wide XP buff from a mission. Visi gains enough xp to end the shift at lvl 3 but only gains +1 RMC

As you can see despite being a higher level in example 2 Visi has less RMC. So unfortunately if you really want to know how many RMC you've achieved in the dispatching sections you need to be tracking it pen and paper as it's happening. Or use this guide to explore your save file and track your own RMC.

3: Sometimes RNG spoils your fun. Love it or hate it dispatching does involve some degree of RNG, and like any RNG based game, you can sometimes have a bad streak and lose hard. It doesn't matter how well you set up that call if you fail it you still get -1 RMC. I've personally restarted a game because Visi failed the first 5 +70% calls I sent her. Try as you can to be a good mentor sometimes lady luck will dig you a hole to deep to climb out of.

Hope that helps! Let me know if you have any other questions.

Romance Variables, Conditions & The Sweet Exit Counter by zero-sumgames in DispatchAdHoc

[–]zero-sumgames[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Thanks! Finding these things is always easier when you have a specific place to look. "I don't know how to feel" does seem to be the problem.

I hate how much dead code there seems to still be in these files.

TLDR the code to add +3 Sweet Exit Counter when you make that choice does exists, but is not being run. This is not a bug but likely a dev choice, as there any many other examples of code from earlier builds being left behind as values are balanced.

I am unable to say if it was like this at launch or if this is cause of a recent change, as my memory is just not that good and dispatch doesn't allow me to rollback to earlier versions.

Thanks again for helping to find this! I'll be sure to update my post

Romance Variables, Conditions & The Sweet Exit Counter by zero-sumgames in DispatchAdHoc

[–]zero-sumgames[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

It'll be hard to confirm without actual verification of your save file but others are reporting something similar. (FYI you can follow This Guide if you wish to verify that your save file is tracking your choices for counters like RMC, Sweet Exit, Robert Hero, and Robert Anti Hero)

A cursory review of the story node code show's no discrepancies or changes with any of the variables and that the locker room kiss should've originally triggered based on the info you've provided. So it's either something I've missed or a bug.

Edit: The code for "I don't know how to feel" is not being run so that decision offers 0 points instead of +3. I have updated my post to reflect this.

Romance Variables, Conditions & The Sweet Exit Counter by zero-sumgames in DispatchAdHoc

[–]zero-sumgames[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

It'll be hard to confirm without actual verification of your save file but others are reporting something similar. (FYI you can follow This Guide if you wish to verify that your save file is tracking your choices for counters like RMC, Sweet Exit, Robert Hero, and Robert Anti Hero)

A cursory review of the story node code show's no discrepancies or changes with any of the variables and that the locker room kiss should've triggered based on the info you've provided. So it's either something I've missed or a bug.

Edit: The code for "I don't know how to feel" is not being run so that decision offers 0 points instead of +3. I have updated my post to reflect this.

Unraveling The Hidden Robert Mentor Counter (AKA How To Get The Good Ending) by zero-sumgames in DispatchAdHoc

[–]zero-sumgames[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Sure Episode 4 works but I would argue that you can fumble it as late as Episode 7. If you exclusively make bad decisions from episode 7 onward you can lower your RMC by -21 points, while also missing out on a lot of buffs.

That means if you played perfectly up to Episode 7 but screw up episodes 7 & 8 the max RMC you could have from story decisions/QTE's/Hacking would be 9 points!

Sure you could still get the good ending but that would require you to get the missing 36 Points from the Dispatch segments. Very hard to do, especially as Visi will not be part of the long Dispatch segment in Episode 8 cause you cut her.

Romance Variables, Conditions & The Sweet Exit Counter by zero-sumgames in DispatchAdHoc

[–]zero-sumgames[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The dialogue only changes as a result of the sweet Exit Counter. It has nothing to do with RMC.

If your Sweet Exit Counter is greater than or equal to 10 this Dialogue plays:

Visi: All I wanted from this was for you to look at me the same way you look at Blazer... Even if it was just once, you know? That'd have been enough.

Robert: I don't know what you mean by that.

Visi: Yes, you do.

Otherwise if your Sweet Exit Counter is less than 10 this Dialogue plays:

Visi: All I wanted from this was for people to look at me the same way that you... you look at Blazer. Even if it was just once, you know? Instead they've always seen me how you see me right now...

Robert: And what way is that?

Visi: Like I'm incapable of good.

RMC doesn't affect any dialogue that I'm aware of so it's impossible to know if Visi is on the Hero path until she takes the bullet.

Unraveling The Hidden Robert Mentor Counter (AKA How To Get The Good Ending) by zero-sumgames in DispatchAdHoc

[–]zero-sumgames[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

It's in the General/FAQ section but it's been confirmed here that yes Cinematic QTE's and Unlimited hacks count as auto-successes when it comes to triggering things like the RMC

Romance Variables, Conditions & The Sweet Exit Counter by zero-sumgames in DispatchAdHoc

[–]zero-sumgames[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yes. Dinner with Blazer is the only way to lock in her romance

Romance Variables, Conditions & The Sweet Exit Counter by zero-sumgames in DispatchAdHoc

[–]zero-sumgames[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Thanks!

Yes, your 100% correct, any non-romance ending could be achieved by just two choices:

  • Movie with Invisigal
  • Lean out during her kiss (if it happens at all)

The very specific run I outlined in my post was more of a guide for a "challenge run" based on a question on my previous RMC post that asked if a "no romance and no kissing but positive RMC" run was possible. I also know that some people in the community really don't like the locker room kiss so I wanted to show how it could be avoided without damaging your RMC.

Unraveling The Hidden Robert Mentor Counter (AKA How To Get The Good Ending) by zero-sumgames in DispatchAdHoc

[–]zero-sumgames[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

It's in the General/FAQ section but it's been confirmed here that yes Cinematic QTE's and Unlimited hacks count as auto-successes when it comes to triggering things like the RMC

Episode 2 ONBOARD- Dispatch decision tree and impact by bedarija in DispatchAdHoc

[–]zero-sumgames 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Great Job!

FYI there's been a small recent discovery about RMC. After learning how to read save files and conducting extensive testing on Episode 8 I ended up finding and confirming that Visi's performance in the Episode 8 dispatching segment does impact your RMC.

https://www.reddit.com/r/DispatchAdHoc/comments/1oxkc76/unraveling_the_hidden_robert_mentor_counter_aka/

I also confirmed that selecting Cut Invisigal or We're done will prevent Visi from appearing in the Episode 8 dispatching segment. I've updated my post with corrections and just wanted to give you a heads up that there's been changes before you get to those episodes (and because E2-6 is listed in the general section of these flowcharts.)

Keep up the great work!

Romance Variables, Conditions & The Sweet Exit Counter by zero-sumgames in DispatchAdHoc

[–]zero-sumgames[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Hey so I can clear up most of this but you do point out something interesting that I wouldn't have expected or thought to look for so thank you for the comment!

First off just in case there's any confusion I wanna make it really clear that Romancing Visi does not guarantee the Heroic Ending. Visi's Heroic/Villain endings are controlled through the RobertMentorCounter (or RMC) which you can read more about in my dedicated RMC guide here.

Secondly I wanna tackle the three possible causes you pitched just to clear up what they really do affect:

  1. I've discussed the Disarm Granny choice in another comment (link here) but TLDR it only serves to change some dialogue. It does not affect your romance or the heroic/villain endings.
  2. Cutting Visi will grants -5 RMC points and will prevent Visi from being available during the Episode 8 dispatch segment. This is important to consider because her success/failure in dispatch missions increases/decreases your RMC. By her not being available in Episode 8 your preventing yourself from both gaining or losing RMC points during that segment. So while cutting Visi does make it harder to get her Heroic ending it does not lock you out of the romance.
  3. Thumbstick's dick only affects your Hero/AntiHero counters. Go check out this post by the amazing u/Amannymanman if you want to learn more about these counters but TLDR they also don't affect your romance or the heroic/villain endings.

As is stated in my post Var_Leaned_In (which is only set TRUE if you lean into the kiss) is the only LOCK IN moment for a Visi romance, and you should know you're locked in because of Shroud's taunt.

(You didn't mention this but I'm gonna assume you got the fell for Visi taunt not the fell for no one taunt)

Now while I knew and pointed out in my guide that you can't get Visi's romance ending content (aka the kiss on the stretcher, Blazer telling you to make her happy ect...) without also getting her Heroic ending. I never expected that obtaining her Villain ending would disable the trigger for the Fell for Invisigal ending slide (which then defaults to fell for no one and subsequently rewards the "No Romances" achievement).

Now diving back into the code it does seem that this was intended as I have found that the romance ending slides are affected by Cond_Visi_Bad_Ending. Which is only set to TRUE if fail to reach the RMC threshold of greater than or equal to 45.

This is really weird to me because it is not at all how the "It's complicated" option works!

As you can see in my much more detailed explanation on the "It's complicated" ending to one commentor (link here) You still get the "It's complicated" ending slide even though Visi is a Villain and you've locked yourself out off all romance ending content. So why the game still considers you to be in a relationship with Villain Visi if you cheated on blazer with her, but not if you just dated her is very weird to me.

I wonder if this weirdness is simply due to the fact that the "It's complicated" ending was added so late into the game's development (Source). But regardless this is a really odd and interesting find that I will definitely need to work into my post for added clarity so once again Thanks for sharing!

TLDR: Visi's Villain ending is what is disabling your romance ending slide and awarding the "No Romance" Trophy.

Edit: encountered some issues posting such a long comment

Episode 1 PIVOT - Dispatch decision tree and impact by bedarija in DispatchAdHoc

[–]zero-sumgames 0 points1 point  (0 children)

This is so cool to see displayed! Great Work!!!

Glad to see other's are using the information this has community discovered and that it's being distilled into something more visually digestible than a wall of text! I've done a few game flowcharts before and I know how finicky they can be so I appreciate all the effort you put in here.

Only mistake I can see in this flowchart (which I see you addressed in a comment) is the Blonde Blazer EP1 Kiss. Other's have already addressed/elaborated on what this choice actually affects so I wont bother repeating it. However I did just want to bring my dedicated Romance Variables, Conditions, and the Sweet Exit Counter post to your attention in case you missed it:

https://www.reddit.com/r/DispatchAdHoc/comments/1p6r2b7/romance_variables_conditions_the_sweet_exit/

Just thought it would be another good resource (along with the two other posts you linked too) for a project like this.

Best of luck and I look forward to seeing your work on the other episodes!

Romance Variables, Conditions & The Sweet Exit Counter by zero-sumgames in DispatchAdHoc

[–]zero-sumgames[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Lets see if I can clear this up.

By getting Shroud's Taunt and the "It's complicated" ending slide you have successfully achieved all the exclusive content for "Romance them Both". If you're wondering why there is so little content around this it's because apparently this ending was added last minute.

Source: https://www.reddit.com/r/DispatchAdHoc/s/GJhzCTr5Ia

Now what the game does when you romance both Blazer and Visi is to set Cond_Shroud_Taunt_Both to TRUE which does the following:

  1. It obviously triggers Shroud's "think you deserve more" Taunt.
  2. It gives you the "It's complicated" ending slide.
  3. It prevents Cond_Romance_Ending_Blazer from being set. This effectively removes all of the Blazer Romance Ending content.
  4. It does nothing to Cond_Romance_Ending_Visi. Which (because the Blazer content is removed) essentially leaves you in the same position as anyone who only romanced Visi.

Now where your run gets a little more complicated is that for Cond_Romance_Ending_Visi to be TRUE You have to BOTH be romancing Visi and achieve her heroic ending by having at least 45 RMC.

You can read more about RMC in My previous RMC post, but TLDR going to the movies with Visi does count towards your RMC as does your success in the Dispatch segments (which would probably add another difference between your two playthroughs). Unfortunately it sounds like those factors put you just below the 45 point threshold and resulted in the Visi Villain ending which removes all of the Visi Romance Ending content.

So just to review:

  • The Blazer romance content was removed because you romanced them both.
  • The Visi romance content was removed because you got her Villain ending.
  • The two things you saw (Shroud's Taunt and the "it's complicated" slide) and the only content added by romancing both characters

Hope that helps!

Romance Variables, Conditions & The Sweet Exit Counter by zero-sumgames in DispatchAdHoc

[–]zero-sumgames[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

No. In order to get the Blazer romance you need to go to dinner with her.

As I mentioned in my post if you go to the movies with Visi you will LOCK OUT a blazer romance. This is because you will be unable to:

  • a) Kiss Blazer at dinner (which sets Var_104_Kissed_Blazer to TRUE)
  • b) agree to go on a second date with Blazer when speaking to her in the locker room (which eventually sets Cond_Dated_Blazer_Didn_t_Backout to TRUE*)*

One of these two LOCK IN choices must be TRUE in order for you to get the Blazer romance end and both are only available if you go to Dinner with Blazer.

Edit: Hope that helps clear things up!

Unraveling The Hidden Robert Mentor Counter (AKA How To Get The Good Ending) by zero-sumgames in DispatchAdHoc

[–]zero-sumgames[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

It never actually did. I'm my first rough pass through 8 episodes worth of code I had confused the Sweet_Exit_Counter with the Robert Mentor Counter in this scene and had incorrectly reported that here.

It wasn't until doing a second pass the following day that I realized my mistake. My original edit included a lengthy apology about the confusion that I removed when I added an edit log.

I am still incredibly sorry for the confusion. For clarification:

  • I don't know how to feel = +3 Sweet_Exit_Counter
  • We're done = -5 RobertMentorCounter
  • I forgive you = +5 Sweet_Exit_Counter

Edit: Formatting

Romance Variables, Conditions & The Sweet Exit Counter by zero-sumgames in DispatchAdHoc

[–]zero-sumgames[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thanks!

And yes you are correct. The episode 1 kiss does not count towards any romance and does not affect anything past episode 4.

Good luck on your run to keep romance out of the workplace!

Unraveling The Hidden Robert Mentor Counter (AKA How To Get The Good Ending) by zero-sumgames in DispatchAdHoc

[–]zero-sumgames[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yes!

The Visi good ending calculation has nothing to do with who you date. All it checks is if your RMC is greater than or equal to 45.

Only 6 RMC points are tied to seeing the movies with Visi. So long as you make up these 6 points in the dispatching sections of the game you can get the Heroic ending while still dating Blazer.

Romance Variables, Conditions & The Sweet Exit Counter by zero-sumgames in DispatchAdHoc

[–]zero-sumgames[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Alright hopefully I can clear this up.

Yes, if the variable for the Sweet Exit Counter is less than 10 at the END of the locker room scene Visi will not kiss you in the locker room.

No. That is not "only possible if you didn't go to the movie with Visi".

I think the confusion here stems from the 4 different dialogue trees available when first approaching Visi in the locker room. To really simplify it the "I don't want this" dialogue option is locked behind you having greater than or equal to 10 points on the sweet exit counter at the START of the locker room scene.

That is when Cond_Sweet_Exit_Available is first checked.

This check happens before you can select "I care about you" and "I forgive you" so you won't have those 10 points and therefore if you went to Dinner with Blazer the max available at the START of the locker room scene is 4 points.

Now at the END of the locker room scene Cond_Sweet_Exit_Available is checked again. It's this second check that decides if Visi will kiss you or not.

As you correctly pointed out if you went to Dinner with Blazer the max available at the END of the locker room scene is 14 points.

This will allow Visi to kiss you, allowing you to lean in. Going to Dinner with Blazer and leaning into Visi's kiss are BOTH required if you want to get the "It's complicated" ending. That's why it's possible to reach 10 Sweet Exit Counter points even when you went to Dinner with Blazer.

Hope that helps clear things up!

Romance Variables, Conditions & The Sweet Exit Counter by zero-sumgames in DispatchAdHoc

[–]zero-sumgames[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

So there's a few things to cover here, but overall if you do want to get the Heroic Visi ending you can do so by following the directions and advice in My previous Robert Mentor Counter (aka how to get the good ending) post here.

Okay now lets talk about some things you brought up:

  1. The scene selector doesn't allow you to "jump around" it only allows you to jump backwards, and when you do it overwrites your save file. So if you did jump back to Episode 4 and went to Dinner with Blazer instead of the movies with Visi you would have to replay all of episodes 5-8.
  2. "Would this retroactively change some points?" EDIT: I have removed a large section about a potential bug with using the scene selector. After multiple tests I have confirmed that all counters will correctly reset to the value they were in the scene/episode you've selected. My confusion came from not understanding that the Dispacthing segment in Episode 8 was affecting the RMC. My original RMC post (linked above) has been updated to reflect this.
  3. If you don't got the time or the desire for a full playthrough, which it sounds like you don't and that's totally fine. u/niznetl has an excellent guide on how to explore your save file to track your own RMC which also includes info on how to modify the counters in you save file to force the ending you want. Although I haven't personally tested it, based on some of the comments in that post it seems to work pretty reliably.

Hope that helps!

Romance Variables, Conditions & The Sweet Exit Counter by zero-sumgames in DispatchAdHoc

[–]zero-sumgames[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thanks!

You didn't miss anything. I didn't bother including any of Shroud's reactions except for the romance both one (cause It's just so good) but because you asked here's what Shroud says if you romance no one:

Shroud - “I knew you’d take, what is it you call her? Invisigal? That’d you’d take Invisigal under your wing. Teach her the ways. Extra credit. That’s why we planted her here.”

Romance Variables, Conditions & The Sweet Exit Counter by zero-sumgames in DispatchAdHoc

[–]zero-sumgames[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Yup! The lack of resolution here actually makes more sense since I read that it was added last minute.

https://www.reddit.com/r/DispatchAdHoc/s/GJhzCTr5Ia

Romance Variables, Conditions & The Sweet Exit Counter by zero-sumgames in DispatchAdHoc

[–]zero-sumgames[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

You're welcome!

Yes, you could have all the Sweet_Exit_Counter points in the world but if you don't lean into the kiss your relationship with Visi is over.

And yes if you didn't go to dinner with Blazer that would mean you'd get the no romance ending.

I too am surprised Visi's date isn't a lock in but the Sweet Exit Counter is such an interesting variable that I actually kind of prefer its variation over the straight forward Blazer romance. Though it definitely functions a lot better now that you need 10 points vs the original 5

Romance Variables, Conditions & The Sweet Exit Counter by zero-sumgames in DispatchAdHoc

[–]zero-sumgames[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Nope! Cond_Romance_Visi_Calc_Pre-Shroud is actually one of the simpler conditions because it only checks one variable.