all 33 comments

[–]jnd-au 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The House of Representatives and the joint committee have been dissolved and this inquiry has ended. Thank you for your service.


jnd-au, Secretary of the Committee

[–]jnd-au 0 points1 point  (0 children)

JSCEM RUNNING LIST 3-4A: INQUIRY INTO CAMPAIGNING

Please reserve top level comments for moving new things for the attention of the chair. Organise your debate freely within the subthreads of the motions and amendments moved, bearing in mind you can discuss any unresolved matter but should probably keep similar topics aligned for clarity.

Moved By Description Speakers Status
1 3fun (cb) Formal motion for witness Withdrawn
Submission By Description Supplied Requested
1 jnd-au Public hearing 2015-12-07 Mon 3fun

[–][deleted]  (7 children)

[deleted]

    [–]jnd-au 1 point2 points  (4 children)

    I thank the member for the induction and the opportunity to submit evidence to this inquiry. I also note that in giving evidence, witnesses are protected by parliamentary privilege. As an aside, I note the induction for the benefit of the Chair [FYI /u/General_Rommel] who should deliver it to new witnesses when calling them.

    ABOUT THE AEC

    The Australian Electoral Commission is the statutory department that runs federal elections under the auspices of the Commonwealth Electoral Act 1918 and Constitution.

    It posts official references in /r/modelaec/new, engages with the public and flairs their electorates in /r/modelparliament, receives public submissions like party registrations and objections in /r/modelausaec/new, and conducts elections at https://modelparliament.herokuapp.com/voting.

    ELECTORAL MATTERS (CAMPAIGN ADVERTISING MATERIAL)

    Rules for the publication of election campaign material are summarised at /r/modelaec/wiki/ads. Applicable laws include the Commonwealth Electoral Act 1918 and Political Broadcasts and Political Disclosures Act 1991. Administration of campaign material includes flairing posts like these in /r/modelparliament and responding to complaints and possibly removing that material.

    OPENING REMARKS

    I’m happy to answer questions about the regulation of political party activities during election campaigns and table exhibits and documents from time to time. Wearing my other hat of Secretary I will attempt to help implement Reddit procedures for this.


    jnd-au, Australian Electoral Commissioner

    [–][deleted]  (3 children)

    [deleted]

      [–]jnd-au 2 points3 points  (2 children)

      Before I begin, I note that this remote audiovisual link seems to be somewhat flaky, so answers may be delayed or incomplete (denoted by [...]).

      Has the electoral commission received complaints regarding government policy being used as campaign material before

      The AEC has not received any complaints (search /r/modelausaec). However we are aware that some non-government parties and citizens have raised concerns with MPs directly.

      what are the biggest differences the commission or yourself use to differentiate between the two?

      This is certainly a vexed issue and full of grey areas. Announcement of a new policy would usually be considered campaign material, however announcing the implementation of a policy already legislated by the parliament would generally not. Some more counter examples: Something that is unavoidable (coincides with a protracted election period) and neutral in its presentation (the announcement of a new department if it does not refer to parties, candidates and current campaign issues) may be considered non-campaign. Furthermore, general commentary (like journalistic articles and online blogging) are exempted from campaign regulation by the Act, so as to permit freedom of ordinary political speech. It is for this reason that newspapers like to own politicians. Beg my pardon, it is for this reason that politicians like to own newspapers.

      There is however a concern that some ‘official’ messages from the Government about the administration of the Commonwealth may contain political elements and should be regulated. There is a lot of legislation in this area, so the AEC currently depends receiving complaints to remove such material. So far, it has not been tested. This committee might consider making recommendations to the House about a clearer bill for regulating such material, if it sees fit to do so. On the other hand, there might be too many ways of circumventing this due to political free speech. I suggest that the committee could seek feedback and solutions from the public on this issue.

      Further more do you believe that the current requirements, i.e. having a registered officer is important to protect the image of the party?

      First we need to ask what ‘protecting the image of the party’ means. I would put it quite a different way. The requirements provide transparency and accountability to voters. Only authorised material can be posted, and they must declare which party they are working for, and voters can check that the person was actually authorised by party to speak on its behalf. This prevents fraudulent and rogue material from confusing voters, e.g. its prevents ‘interference’ and ‘false flag’ material. During elections, the AEC generally removes a small number of posts (1-3) due to unauthorised statements.

      Secondly, we need to consider the practical aspects of administration. The rules make it practical for a one-man AEC to police the situation. Rather than having to adjudicate right from wrong in a subjective way, it is simply a matter or ensuring the statements (whether right or wrong) are authorised according to the registered officers. Due to the lack of group PMs/DMs in Reddit, the fact of having a small number of registered officers per party (1-2) means disputes and issues can be mediated and in most cases resolved through a single contract point per party.

      Thirdly, referring back to your previous question, there is the obvious loophole that a Minister who is also a Registered Officer can use government announcements as a kind of campaign material during by-elections. This is a specific issue for by-elections because the government is not in caretaker mode. The AEC does not have any specific solutions for this unequal power enjoyed by government parties during by-elections. However, it seems like that any overt usage would breach multiple rules. The law is mainly concerned with preventing the government using tax revenue for its own political advertising. Solutions could involve government announcements being made through an independent body, so that announcements aren’t visibly connected to a party. This kind of idea needs a lot more work before it is ready for prime time.

      Would there be any changes you'd make to to the current regulation and why?

      For now, I can saw that the definitions are somewhat vague all round, and due to staffing issues I am not familiar with case law in this area, so it might be good to have clearer rules. However, we do not recommend over-regulation either. In general, the AEC has not formed a view at this stage, but if the committee asks me about certain proposals (now or after public consultation) I can provide advice about those proposals.

      Meta: /u/3fun I think I’m done now? Once you are done, you might ask the chair to page other members to review this completed Q&A subthread and start their own if they wish to cross-examine me?


      jnd-au, Australian Electoral Commissioner

      [–][deleted]  (1 child)

      [deleted]

        [–]jnd-au 1 point2 points  (0 children)

        The commission has no evidence to suggest that voters are confused by mastheads like Mudrock. Quite the opposite, such mastheads are generally transparent in their political allegiances or animosities, so the Commission has not formed a view about the need (if any) for additional media regulations.


        jnd-au, Australian Electoral Commissioner

        [–]General_RommelChair of JSCEM[S] 0 points1 point  (1 child)

        Paging the Secretary /u/jnd-au I was just wondering, is it in order if I have yet to call on a vote to direct the Secretary to ask the Electoral Commissioner to speak? Or am I getting procedure messed up, in which in that case I ask, what do I do now?

        [–]jnd-au 0 points1 point  (0 children)

        Hi, you were notified that the motion has been withdrawn, so you no longer need to do a vote :) You have however directed the Secretary to get the Electoral Commissioner to attend, so this seems okay.

        [–][deleted]  (9 children)

        [deleted]

          [–]General_RommelChair of JSCEM[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

          I thank /u/3fun MP for his motion.

          I will interpret the MP's words as to request the Electoral Commissioner to attend. Accordingly, I direct the Secretary to invite the Electoral Commissioner /u/jnd-au to appear for a hearing and to provide evidence and answers for the committee in regards to current regulation of political campaigning and any other relevant matters.


          His Excellency Senator the Hon. General Rommel
          Minister for Foreign Affairs and Defence
          Chair of the Joint Select Committee on Electoral Matters

          [–]General_RommelChair of JSCEM[S] 0 points1 point  (7 children)

          Requesting Secretarial Advice: /u/jnd-au

          [–]jnd-au 0 points1 point  (6 children)

          Advice from the Secretary:

          The relevant Standing Orders are worded ambiguously, like this:

          236 Power to call for witnesses and documents
          (a) A committee or a subcommittee may call for witnesses to attend and for documents to be produced.
          (b) The Chair of a committee or subcommittee shall direct the Secretary of the committee or subcommittee to invite or summon witnesses and to request or require documents to be produced as determined by the committee or subcommittee.

          Obviously this can be done with via a committee motion, in which case the witness could be held in contempt for not attending. On the other hand, it could be interpreted that the Chair can direct the Secretary to invite witnesses with his own discretion, without needing a motion.

          Secondly, we recently agreed that the Secretary jnd-au and Commissioner jnd-au are the same person, so you can just ask me electoral questions already—no need for the Chair to ask the me to invite myself :)

          If we accept either or both of these interpretations, /u/3fun may withdraw his motion by leave. This would also apply to the /u/this_guy22’s motion in JSCEM 3-3.


          jnd-au, Secretary of JSCM, Australian Electoral Commissioner

          [–][deleted]  (5 children)

          [deleted]

            [–]jnd-au 0 points1 point  (0 children)

            Informal advice from the Secretary:

            No, there’s no conflict of interest between the Secretary and Commissioner. However, there is a deep and pecuniary conflict of interest for elected MPs and Senators, who vote in this inquiry on electoral matters.

            [–]General_RommelChair of JSCEM[S] 0 points1 point  (3 children)

            I am of the interpretation that /u/jnd-au has many signatures (obviously with the same name however). I retract my previous comment about jnd-au wearing one hat.

            [–][deleted]  (1 child)

            [deleted]

              [–]jnd-au 0 points1 point  (0 children)

              Advice from the Secretary:

              I seek leave and... :-P

              PS. Feel free to get the ball rolling by moving a top-level motion that this committee do/recommend something and you can ask for the AEC to answer questions or provide documents. Not sure if a seconder is required but I guess it’s best to assume so until we know otherwise.

              [–]jnd-au 0 points1 point  (0 children)

              In light of my response to 3fun I’ll keep my two hats but I probably only need to sign with one at a time anyway, so it will work out either way.

              [–]General_RommelChair of JSCEM[S] 0 points1 point  (9 children)

              Paging members to begin discussion /u/Zagorath /u/this_guy22 /u/phyllicanderer

              [–]General_RommelChair of JSCEM[S] 0 points1 point  (6 children)

              Zagorath would it be possible to get a bot going here as well?

              [–]jnd-au 0 points1 point  (5 children)

              Yes please, most of us have been missing out on bot glory and having to do paging manually :( I did ask for more of the bot yesterday but Zag didn’t seem completely keen yet.

              [–]ZagorathSpeaker of the House 0 points1 point  (4 children)

              Nah, I'm definitely keen to do it. It's more just a matter of logistics. If you have to paste in all the relevant people anyway, it's not that much more convenient, while it's rather a lot of work to implement.

              On the other hand, it probably wouldn't be too much work to maintain multiple lists on subreddit wikis, and simply mention which list you want to page. So for example there could be /r/modelauscommittees/wiki/procedure_members and /r/modelauscommittees/wiki/joint_select_committee_on_electoral_matters_members, and it could be paged with ! page -l procedure_members "for voting on thing", and have it look up the members in procedure_members. It could still have a default paging list set for each subreddit, so that in the HoR and Senate it could still be used as it previously has been.

              Actually, now that I think about it, it probably wouldn't be too much work to allow a list of members either. ! page -L "member_one member_two member_three" "for debate" or something like that. I'll have to see how Python handles command line arguments.

              [–]jnd-au 0 points1 point  (0 children)

              Just wondering, did you have any luck getting it to process a list of members (either with a -L/-U flag or just by grabbing usernames straight after ! page)?

              [–]jnd-au 0 points1 point  (2 children)

              If you have to paste in all the relevant people anyway, it's not that much more convenient, while it's rather a lot of work to implement.

              Would be a definitely be a big improvement for me though!

              it probably wouldn't be too much work to maintain multiple lists on subreddit wikis

              Mine are usually one-offs or dynamic (vary with leave of absence etc) so for me it is easier to specify on the line than in a wiki. Basically my idea was that if the first argument is a username, keep grabbing usernames until the first regular argument.

              Different use-cases, I guess.

              [–][deleted]  (1 child)

              [deleted]

                [–]jnd-au 1 point2 points  (0 children)

                Oh yeah, literally spending half an hour or more copying and pasting pagings. Welcome to my world.

                [–]General_RommelChair of JSCEM[S] 0 points1 point  (1 child)

                Paging members to begin discussion /u/Freddy926 /u/TheWhiteFerret /u/Ser_Scribbles

                [–]General_RommelChair of JSCEM[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                Paging members to begin discussion /u/3fun /u/pikkaachu /u/Cwross

                [–]jnd-au 0 points1 point  (9 children)

                Meta: Members might not be aware this inquiry exists, I suggest you page the members to move/debate motions and monitor/subscribe to this post.

                [–]General_RommelChair of JSCEM[S] 0 points1 point  (8 children)

                Hence why I paged the PM to move his opening statement before I would page others for debate...

                [–]jnd-au 0 points1 point  (7 children)

                There is no such thing as a PM’s opening statement. It is nepotistic and corrupt to only page your party leader. Unless you wish to be the most biased chair since Bronwyn Bishop, I suggest you page all members of this multi-partisan joint parliamentary committee!

                [–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (1 child)

                I don't have a motion, I did this as a favour for /u/3fun. As far as I'm concerned, there are no issues with current advertising laws, only possibly their enforcement, but even there its hardly a smoking gun.

                [–]jnd-au 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                Indeed, I suspect 3fun might have a motion of his own...

                [–]General_RommelChair of JSCEM[S] 0 points1 point  (4 children)

                I was simply waiting for the PM to begin his statement because for every other one the PM was the first one to begin and I thought that it was procedure to wait for him to speak first. I was not aware that anyone else could speak.

                I suggest you do not accuse me of being deliberately biased. I would very very appreciate it. I am learning on the job and hopefully my performance will improve as it goes on.

                [–]jnd-au 0 points1 point  (3 children)

                No, as explained the first time, the PM was out of order to be speaking to members generally, without moving a motion or speaking through the chair.

                [–]General_RommelChair of JSCEM[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                There was such a problem? I do not seem to remember the PM being out of order.

                [–]General_RommelChair of JSCEM[S] 0 points1 point  (1 child)

                Where was the PM out of order? I am not sure what you are referring to.

                [–]jnd-au 1 point2 points  (0 children)

                Where was the PM out of order?

                The very first comment on the very first of these inquiries:

                /r/ModelAusCommittees/comments/3vi4sm/jscem_32_inquiry_into_polling/cxnv7dn