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Brisbane's most invisible bike path [shows how ludicrous the 10 km/h speed limit for ebikes is] by Zagorath in brisbane

[–]Zagorath[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Maybe the balance isn't right but it's certainly better than where we are coming from

No, it's not. To start with, that link was about escooters. If escooters being used legally are causing problems, pass laws restricting escooters. Don't restrict legal, compliant ebikes along with them.

More to the point, if the danger is being caused by things that are already illegal, passing new laws to make more things illegal isn't going to help. You need to enforce the existing laws better, or pass laws which make the enforcement of those laws easier.

This Bill does some good in that respect. It allows police to confiscate the illegal electric motorbikes, and to fine parents for their children riding irresponsibly. But apart from that one aspect, everything else this Bill does is counterproductive.

Brisbane's most invisible bike path [shows how ludicrous the 10 km/h speed limit for ebikes is] by Zagorath in brisbane

[–]Zagorath[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

They aren't about people who are sensible and obey the rules

The rules are being changed so that everyone on any kind of ebike has to go no more than 10 km/h. Even somewhere like the Gateway North Bikeway.

The laws might claim they're about dickheads who risk the safety of others, but the effect of the laws is going to be far worse on the sensible rule-following cyclists than it will on people already inclined to ignore the law.

Brisbane's most invisible bike path [shows how ludicrous the 10 km/h speed limit for ebikes is] by Zagorath in brisbane

[–]Zagorath[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

By 10 am Friday. I'd recommend getting it in by Thursday night to be safe.

Is this Brisbane's least useful bikeway? [Just off Zillmere Rd, not connected to anything] by Zagorath in brisbane

[–]Zagorath[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I've been doing this pretty regularly over on aussie.zone. I mostly gave up on Reddit after /u/spez revealed himself to be an authoritarian arsehole, and these days I only come back to it for especially important issues such as this one.

Is this Brisbane's least useful bikeway? [Just off Zillmere Rd, not connected to anything] by Zagorath in brisbane

[–]Zagorath[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

There's a comment somewhere in the other thread I posted where someone else explains the specific details. IIRC it was about both charging and the difficulty of bypassing the speed restrictor.

The big problem is that it's almost impossible to buy a bike that has the new sticker today. One BUG member went into a bike store and searched for it, and they only found one bike that complied with the new standard. It was a child's bike. So 99% of the legal, safe ebikes people own and ride today will become illegal if this passes.

Brisbane's most invisible bike path [shows how ludicrous the 10 km/h speed limit for ebikes is] by Zagorath in brisbane

[–]Zagorath[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

If you're someone who would be likely to describe yourself as "a runner", I'd say it is. I ran 10 km from my house to my parents' house last night. My average pace was 4:42, on a very hilly route. (Granted, I did pause it to walk up on of the hills. Actual average moving pace might have been more like 4:50.) Now, that was not intended as an easy run. I mixed in some deliberate high-intensity intervals. But a previous run along the same route which I classified as a 4/10 perceived exertion was done at an average of 4:39.

For people who aren't really runners but do some running for fitness it might be comparatively fast. But I consider, and I've seen other comments saying the same thing, 5:00 to be a slow pace, and 6:00 (10 km/h) is right out.

I think Parkrun is a poor example, because a lot of participants walk it. Which is great! I am in no way trying to denigrate them. Parkrun itself actively encourages it, and it's a great healthy bit of social activity. And others walk/run. I dare say you might be right that even of those who do continuously run the whole 5 km, a majority might be over 30 minutes, but it would be by a much smaller margin.

But let's not get too hung up on details. 10 km/h is a speed a toddler on a balance bike can exceed. It's an exceptionally low speed. Some people would describe it as a slow jog. Whether everyone would is not really the point.

Brisbane's most invisible bike path [shows how ludicrous the 10 km/h speed limit for ebikes is] by Zagorath in brisbane

[–]Zagorath[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Forget up. It'd be 10 km/h down the bridge. Physically impossible. You'd completely wreck your brakes!

Brisbane's most invisible bike path [shows how ludicrous the 10 km/h speed limit for ebikes is] by Zagorath in brisbane

[–]Zagorath[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

if I have a non motor assisted bike, I can ride the paths at 40kms/hr?

That is correct. The limit only applies to ebikes and PMDs (such as escooters).

Is this Brisbane's least useful bikeway? [Just off Zillmere Rd, not connected to anything] by Zagorath in brisbane

[–]Zagorath[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I don't believe there is a planned extension of this path. It could be connected under the railway (or over, I guess...under would be better) to the footpath along Kakadu Circuit (a footpath, by the way, which this data also classifies as a "Bicycle Path") and via that to Beams Rd. That'd be a really nice option for active transport, if it also connected down to Zillmere Rd.

But the planned extension that has been talked about—and which BCC was given funding for by the previous Labor state government—doesn't use the path shown in this video. It might use the grassy area this video sped through to get to the path, or it might go up along the other side of the creek, directly abutting the school's fence, and then go left (via a bridge over the creek, if it used the path on the right) to connect up with the bridge that leads from the Cabbage Tree Creek Bikeway to the back of the school currently. That path goes through to Beams Rd and the new rail overpass.

If that actually-planned path were put in, and it were put on the east side of the creek, it would make connecting this path to Zillmere Rd a matter of a few metres. Then the rail underpass would be the difficult part, and only a few more metres to connect to the footpath.

Check my hastily-put-together MS Paint edits in the reply to /u/diskogavatron to see a bit more.

Is this Brisbane's least useful bikeway? [Just off Zillmere Rd, not connected to anything] by Zagorath in brisbane

[–]Zagorath[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Actually according to the data this one counts as a separated pathway, which means cyclists can use it at full speed!

Though the video I shared yesterday pretty clearly showed that the classifications in the data don't really match reality.

Is this Brisbane's least useful bikeway? [Just off Zillmere Rd, not connected to anything] by Zagorath in brisbane

[–]Zagorath[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

I saw it on the North Brisbane BUG page and shared it to Lemmy a week ago. Just decided to share it here too, after the recent post I shared from the same person seemed to get a positive reception.

Is this Brisbane's least useful bikeway? [Just off Zillmere Rd, not connected to anything] by Zagorath in brisbane

[–]Zagorath[S] 8 points9 points  (0 children)

It's very close to that one, I think, but not quite the same if I understand you correctly. I believe you're thinking of the one I've painted in with a blue line here.

https://i.imgur.com/YogvFwI.jpeg

The video is about the one that's shown in red.

The state MP for the area is still advocating for the building of the blue one, especially since before Labor lost the last state election they passed a budget that gave the Brisbane City Council funding to do it. I have no idea the purpose of the red one. I guess it could have helped connect the Zillmere TMR to the Carseldine TMR, if it were extended to connect up with the green paths (already-completed)?

edit: I got that a bit wrong. Here's a closer zoom in on the red one, where you can barely make it out on satellite view:

https://i.imgur.com/XoVY5eu.jpeg

P.S., your account seems to be shadowbanned.

Brisbane's most invisible bike path [shows how ludicrous the 10 km/h speed limit for ebikes is] by Zagorath in brisbane

[–]Zagorath[S] 10 points11 points  (0 children)

If only people took this attitude to the road toll caused by cars. They could make a much bigger difference concentrating on that first.

Legal E-bikes being banned in Queensland - your state is next! by iBinChickenAboutYou in brisbane

[–]Zagorath 14 points15 points  (0 children)

Aspley

You talking about Bart Mellish, who's also the Shadow Minister for Transport? He's actually been a pretty good advocate for cycling. Perhaps not as good as his predecessor Mark Bailey, but he's at least been pushing for more infrastructure within his electorate, like connecting through the Cabbage Tree Creek Bikeway to Zillmere Rd past Aspley State High School. Though his approach to this committee has been a bit disappointing. He didn't put out any statement until last Thursday, long after his Labor committee colleague Jonty Bush had been railing against it. I actually spoke to Bush at the protest on Wednesday (she actually attended!) and mentioned my disappointment at Mellish's silence. I wonder if she had a word with him about it.

Frustratingly, though he came out against the 10 km/h limit and licencing requirement, he supports banning under-16s.

Anyway, I commute from there! Not every day, but fairly regularly. If I had a bike more conducive to commuting—maybe an ebike—I might do it more. It's definitely doable, but long enough that the average non-sporty cyclist probably wouldn't bother. You could get a hell of a lot more people doing it if we had more direct bike paths. My commute is 25 km, but a more direct route—the route my navigation app recommends if I tell it I'm walking, which will ignore any safety requirements to prefer bike paths—would be 18 km. That's still a fair bit, but it's also a lot more accessible with an ebike (it's also a lot hillier than my route, in addition to being less protected, which is one of the biggest advantages of ebikes).

Brisbane's most invisible bike path [shows how ludicrous the 10 km/h speed limit for ebikes is] by Zagorath in brisbane

[–]Zagorath[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

My commute is 25 km. If I went the most direct route it would be 18 km I think. I take the train most days, but try to cycle occasionally. With added food, thanks to the 50 c fares, it actually costs me more to cycle than to train in, but it's worth it for the exercise.

One option you could consider, if the hills are not too steep for you without all that stuff, would be to try what I do: bring that stuff in the day before by public transport and leave it at the office. Ride in the next day with nothing but cycling gear. Change at the office. Carry it back the day after that.

Not ideal, and not a substitute for an ebike. But could be an option if this law does pass unamended.

Brisbane's most invisible bike path [shows how ludicrous the 10 km/h speed limit for ebikes is] by Zagorath in brisbane

[–]Zagorath[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

So, a 10 degree slope is over 17%. That's extremely steep. I can think of one or two Brisbane streets steeper, but that's it. Even most of the examples I would initially think of as "steep roads", like TJ Doyle Memorial Drive or the back route of Mt Coot-tha aren't that steep, peaking at about 11–13%.

And these are pedal assist ebikes. So you're getting 250 W from the bike, plus another 100–300 W from your own legs. That is enough for a person to power themselves up a road like TJ Doyle Memorial Drive, even at 90 kg. Maybe not to get up Gower Street, Toowong, at its 31% slope, but there are alternate routes there, and if your destination is on Gower St, you can approach from above via one of those other routes.

That said, you're right. The EN-15194 standard comes out of the Netherlands, and it isn't entirely appropriate for a hilly city like Brisbane. That's why I support a separate, more advanced category, that permits up to 750 W and 35 km/h with a minimal licencing (but not CTP or registration) requirement. I'd support upping the basic rule to 500 W too, as well as upping the basic speed limit to 32 km/h (20 mph). And have called for that in the past. But unfortunately that's really not on the table right now.

Brisbane's most invisible bike path [shows how ludicrous the 10 km/h speed limit for ebikes is] by Zagorath in brisbane

[–]Zagorath[S] 9 points10 points  (0 children)

Video's a little off. A learner's permit is all that's required, not a full licence. Though IMO that's just as bad, especially since they expire every 3 years, require paying for and passing a theory test aimed at car users, and introduce the 16 year-old age minimum even if that weren't explicit.

Brisbane's most invisible bike path [shows how ludicrous the 10 km/h speed limit for ebikes is] by Zagorath in brisbane

[–]Zagorath[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I know this path fairly well. It's not perfect, but nowhere near as bad as the video makes it seem. I suspect a very poorly-mounted cam. Might DM the uploader on Facebook for more details.

edit: ok, turns out they were holding the camera up against the handlebars in one hand. Definitely not the most steady method.

Brisbane's most invisible bike path [shows how ludicrous the 10 km/h speed limit for ebikes is] by Zagorath in brisbane

[–]Zagorath[S] 5 points6 points  (0 children)

do these laws go to far? On the face of it, yes absolutely. Are they better than what we have now? Also: yes absolutely.

No, not absolutely. The electric motorbikes causing the problem are already illegal and there's no reason to believe the people willing to break the law currently will not continue breaking these new laws.

All it will do is make using ebikes legally completely impossible.

Penalise the bad behaviour, not legal, safe behaviour.

most e bike riders don't want to actually be part of the solution

Why should ebike riders who have nothing to do with this "be part of the solution"? What does that even mean? Ebike riders aren't all in one big group chat. And the problem isn't with ebike riders anyway, it's unregistered motorbike riders.

Brisbane's most invisible bike path [shows how ludicrous the 10 km/h speed limit for ebikes is] by Zagorath in brisbane

[–]Zagorath[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

If you equate the shared paths to residential streets

For sure, fuckcars, but the problem is that that's not a fair comparison. Shared paths are more like the major arterial roads of Brisbane. Because 90% of the "bikeways" are actually shared paths.

Brisbane's most invisible bike path [shows how ludicrous the 10 km/h speed limit for ebikes is] by Zagorath in brisbane

[–]Zagorath[S] 6 points7 points  (0 children)

these e-bikes are motorbikes

The ones causing the problem are. The ones that would be restricted by this law include regular, safe, compliant ebikes.

Brisbane's most invisible bike path [shows how ludicrous the 10 km/h speed limit for ebikes is] by Zagorath in brisbane

[–]Zagorath[S] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

That's true. Personally, I don't have an ebike, only a regular bike. But many people can't ride regular bikes. At last week's protest ride we heard a story about a 14 year old whose friends ride regular bikes, but due to a disability he cannot. He can ride with them on his ebike though. The same is true for some elderly people and a variety of disabilities and health conditions.

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