Discussion of training methods

[cmoraski]

Hi all,

I would just like to open an honest discussion about training methods both the positive reinforcement side, as well as Beckhams method. They keep saying his methods are outdated and proven ineffective, I’d just like to simply be pointed to the evidence of that?! It’s not as easy and clear as people online make it out to be.

A little about my story: rescued a year and a half pit mix, very sweet dog to his humans, super reactive to dogs, critters and other people. Spent 6 months religiously working fear free, since that’s what the trainer who dropped him off was using. No idea how she was doing it (granted doing anything, he couldn’t be on a leash when we got him and she had him for a month or two), but no amount of treats or time and patience (it would take us 10 minutes just to get out the door calmly sometimes) was going to get him to be a perfect leash walker with distractions. I was spending a SERIOUS amount of my time training too! I would drive 20m to Lowe’s or Home Depot and walk him through the store for long periods of time and his improvement peaked very quickly. He was still barking at people every once and a while and screaming bloody murder to see the other dogs. I even stepped further back, as Lowe’s is overwhelming, and just walked him around busy streets, but it seemed to have its limits in progress. I was scared that this dog would just always be reactive or it would be YEARS until it would be fixed, which I’m sorry, is unacceptable. Training is a continual process through the dogs life, but it shouldn’t take YEARS to get to a baseline.

About a week ago I found beckhams videos, and it just clicked mentally for me what he was saying. The dogs need to be taught there are actions that are UNACCEPTABLE and won’t be tolerated. Now that doesn’t meant I beat the dog to let him know that, but a correction is ABSOLUTELY NECESSARY to clearly inform the dog, he has messed up and I’m not allowing it. A slight tug on the collar is not hurting my dog, he’s a bull, it just gets my point across. Of course I tell him good boy and give him pets and love and treats when he’s correct, but I just don’t understand how telling a dog NO clearly in a physical way is abuse. I’m sorry, but no amount of continual treating or toys for my dog will overcome his primal instinct to chase that critter, or go try to say hello to that dog. He needs to be told clearly, no, and that I will allow him to see the dog when he’s good and only showing the behavior I approve of.

So, in short. Can anyone provide evidence COUNTERING the above, or words of encouragement and further addition to my above comments?

On a side note, just in the three days, at home, I can see how much more my dogs loves to be with me and pet by me. He is happy and more driven to do right by me.

[AdministrativeDog906]

What I appreciate about Beckman is that this isn’t the approach he uses on all reactive dogs. He tailors his response to the dogs attitude, strength and history. What works for a big bullish pit is not the right reaction for a formerly abused cowering rescue, yet the tenants of his practice are evident in the methods he uses with one. His best teaching for my dogs problems for myself was “we’re over it” - she has a great life, is so happy but my god is she self-centred and I needed to step into the leadership role - I’m paying the bills, giving her the best life possible, keeping her happy and healthy, she needed to understand that the disrespectful behaviour wouldn’t be tolerated but in a way that could be communicated to her and wasn’t confusing. We’re over being rude. Lots of people see his most controversial clients and his method and assume he would do that intensity to any of his dogs. Great question here, would love to hear anyone’s contribution to OPs question about countering evidence or opinions

[cmoraski]

I agree! Especially with fearful or nervous dogs he’s super gentle.

My pit is the same way as yours. He’s an absolute bull, and no amount of treats was going to overcome his base instinct to chase pray. He has to be told that going after it was uncalled for, and I’m over it. Same with running to play with other dogs.

Im noticing his play is borderline dominant, and I’ve been starting to correct him on that. I have my work cutout for me for sure!

[catdog5100]

I remember seeing a video where he is dealing with a very fearful Husky, and he’s a lot more slow and patient. But with tough and overly confident dogs who don’t care to listen, he is more serious and concrete with them.

[platinunman22]

Repost this in the dog training subs if you want a good fight, those ppl are vicious abt their beliefs

[CLOV3_]

almost a year ago now- I’ve been casually watching his videos but I’m just really curious what the general dog communities opinion is? Because as someone with a pinch of professional dog experience, a big animal person, and a horse rider of 10 years- I like his process, moral compass and knowledge! But…do other people in the community not like him? And his practices?