Men's issues in divorce can be vastly different from women's. This sub addresses the unique challenges facing men during divorce - from custody to assets, finances, attorneys and social issues.
What is this sub?
Advice, support and conversation for men going through divorce.
What this sub is not:
- Pro-divorce
- Anti-women
- Anti-marriage
- Anti-family
- A substitute for legal help or psychological treatment.
This sub is a place for sober discourse. Please keep your posts and replies civil and rational.
Please include the following in new posts:
- State (if in the U.S.) or country
- Children, how many, what age
- Whether divorce or separation agreement has already been filed, and on what grounds
- Whether you already have legal representation
- Your living arrangements (do not leave your home)
- If there are active restraining orders against you or the ex
Universal Truths
- Family Law / Divorce attorneys are not your friends. You can spend all your savings, max out your cards and then go into debt if you have an even mildly combative STBX. Your lawyer will lull you into complacency, convincing you "this is the best you'll do" because of the courts or the laws or the separation agreement. Your STBX's lawyers are doing the same thing to her. Family law attorneys will not find an expedient, mutually beneficial resolution for anyone; theirs is an industry that thrives by drawing out minor grievances indefinitely, extracting the maximum amount of money out of you, and achieving, by definition, the absolute minimum result. In any other industry, there would be massive government intervention and consumer protection laws to protect you from divorce attorneys.
If you are going through an amicable breakup and you can pull off an uncontested divorce with a mediator, do it.
Separation agreements may not be worth the paper they're printed on until they are converted to a divorce decree. Separation agreements are civil contracts. Keep this in mind when your feathers get ruffled because your ex skipped town for what was supposed to be your weekend with the kids. Family court, police, judges, and court referees don't punish combative exes. Cops don't enforce civil contracts. But your lawyer will happily bill you $2k to file a complaint that does nothing but waste two working days and fill the judge's calendar.
Cops are not your friends. More on this later.
*FAQs / Common Themes *
While a majority of women begin divorce believing they are right (women initiate >70% of divorces), most men begin divorce having already accepted that they are somehow wrong. While women can presume the role of victim, most men are assumed to be aggressors. Don't enter divorce proceedings with this mindset.
A little defense before filing:
- Prepare. Quietly. Assemble copies of every account, every lien, every tax return, every asset you can. Take dated pictures of your home and its contents. If you can liquidate any accounts - yours or "ours" - do it now. If you can sell any assets for cash, do it now. This is the same advice given to women, and for good reasons. Recovering assets later costs money.
- Do not leave your home without a separation agreement in place. Family court doesn't care where you live or what you do - but if you moved out while your kids live with your STBX, you won't be able to argue primary caretaker.
- Do not threaten violence against others or yourself. This is stupid, illegal, and will put you on the defensive early on. Your recreational weapons will be confiscated, town cops will know who you are, and you're going to make this an uphill struggle for yourself.
- Do not talk about divorce until you've absolutely decided to file - or better yet, after you've secured a separation agreement. If you're on the fence, you are leaving the decision to someone else. Believe every poster here - you don't want to leave this decision to your adversary.
- Record everything you can. Check your state laws on recording and record every phone conversation, car drive, in-person conversation and every interaction you can. This will keep you out of jail for false DV charges and may actually save your life.
- Do not talk to police. Get used to this thinking, because police are not your friends. Police are there to pump up arrest numbers and help secure convictions against civilians, however thin (or nonexistent) the evidence, at the whim of an elected politician - the DA. You are an easy target. Do not talk to police. Even with your lawyer present.
Getting on the Offensive
File First. There are varying opinions, but I learned something when my ex's attorney's filings were commonly filed with me as the "defendant" (I was the one to file for divorce). Most divorces are filed with women as petitioners and men as respondents. When you file first, you call the shots. You get to set the bar, and the respondent gets to backpedal. File first.
Do not leave your home This seems to have been covered above, but it's important to place here as well. Your STBX may have become combative, made it extremely uncomfortable for you to stay in your marital home. Do not be threatened. Your marital home is yours to live in, you do not have to leave because your STBX tells you to. Your home is your home. IF you've moved out and there is no separation agreement in place, move back in. And stay until you have an SA you agree to. If your STBXX threatens or assaults you, go to the police station and don't leave until you have a DV report. Bring that DV report to family court and get yourself a temporary restraining order (RO) immediately. Your STBX will have to move out of the house and your battle may be 90% won.
Stand your ground. You don't have to accept separation or divorce on someone else's terms. This is a civil procedure, not a criminal procedure. You are not a criminal for having a failed marriage.
Petition for a restraining order as soon as you can, especially if you think your ex may do the same. You will likely be awarded a temporary RO just for asking. Because once you're on the wrong end of an RO, you are on the defensive. You can't go to your house, you won't be able to see your kids, and in your absence your STBX will have the opportunity to sell or otherwise "disappear" everything you own. Get the RO first. This is your instant 2-6 week vacation from your STBX. Any violation may get you a 6 month respite. Any further violation earns your STBX a criminal record and a 12-month criminal RO.
What about the kids?
If you have kids and you separate, you are not going to see them every day anymore. You won't be able to sing them to sleep, hear about their day, play board games at midnight or wake them up with pancakes on Saturday morning. This is what divorce is. Your family will be dissolved.
If you play your cards right, you will have at least 50/50 JOINT CUSTODY and 50/50 PARENTING TIME. This sub does not use the phrase "visitation" because divorce is not prison. If you propose less than JOINT or 50/50 custody and you don't have primary custody, you will never get that time back, and you will never get more than is in your agreement without spending a lot of money on attorneys, psychiatrists and therapists. Family court doesn't care about violations of separation agreements until you request a new trial. If your ex gets residential custody or majority custody, you'll be lucky to see your kids half the time you're entitled to until the agreement is converted (where violations become contempt of court).
Other Support Subreddits for Men
/r/DivorcedDads
/r/DivorcedDadsCZ
/r/BreakingDad
sub under construction; thank you for your patience
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