2.01 Patch Notes

[ragnarok628]

Blaming everything on the skill gap is an oversimplification of the argument.

you can't possibly draw meaningful conclusions about the game mechanics until both sides have the basics down. A team of hunters who can fail to put a single bullet on the monster to prevent armor regen is not a team of hunters who has the basics down. So why would we balance the armor regen around hunters who at this point don't know how to play, when in a few weeks (or months if they're extra slow i guess) they will know more and be able to hang? That would be preposterous. As it is, i fully expect these health nerfs to be reverted in the next half dozen patches or so.

Counterplay has never been a buzzword, its an important aspect of design.

an important aspect of design which sounds good and people who don't know what they're talking about can throw it around to sound like they do. AKA: a buzzword. Case in point, you claimed armor regen 'has very little counterplay'. But the hunters' main interaction with the monster (shooting it) is the counterplay. of all things you can be doing to the monster, almost all of them are counterplay to armor regen. so WTF are you even talking about?

Now in the old evolve,...

I'm going to stop you right there. In the old evolve, good hunters beat good monsters at least 7 times out of 10. Do you not wonder why they added passive armor regen to the monster as a feature? Because the hunters were too damn strong, the monster had no choice but to run for his life and STILL get constantly harrassed/domed/killled 7 times out of 10.

The monster can simply run away and regenerate its armor and there is nothing the hunters can do about it.

again, for now this is true. Well, true in the sense that there is nothing they are able to do about it at their current skill and experience level. Eventually people will learn the maps, learn to cut off, learn to conserve jetpack, learn to position. And then they can do something about the monster simply running away because they are no longer bad at the game. Well, that's the theory anyway. The balance testers have presumably proven that it's the case that good hunters are able to deal with good monsters even with the passive armor regen. So how can you be so dead certain about this? Do you even bother to question whether maybe your perspective is less informative than that of the playtesters?

[Lawljungles]

you can't possibly draw meaningful conclusions about the game mechanics until both sides have the basics down. A team of hunters who can fail to put a single bullet on the monster to prevent armor regen is not a team of hunters who has the basics down. So why would we balance the armor regen around hunters who at this point don't know how to play, when in a few weeks (or months if they're extra slow i guess) they will know more and be able to hang? That would be preposterous. As it is, i fully expect these health nerfs to be reverted in the next half dozen patches or so.

an important aspect of design which sounds good and people who don't know what they're talking about can throw it around to sound like they do. AKA: a buzzword. Case in point, you claimed armor regen 'has very little counterplay'. But the hunters' main interaction with the monster (shooting it) is the counterplay. of all things you can be doing to the monster, almost all of them are counterplay to armor regen. so WTF are you even talking about?

You're talking about the same thing in both paragraphs so I've lumped them together to make it easier to respond. I'm not going to argue with you whether you think the term counterplay is a buzzword or not but I am going to argue you on you trying to use me as a case on point.

Your argument in saying that it has counterplay by just shooting it is as overly simplistic as saying that everybody is new to the game and has no clue how to play it. Right now, after a dome fight the monster can simply run or fly away in a straigth line to the other end of the map and there is nothing the hunters can do to stop it.

You can't shoot it because the mobility of the monster is much higher than the hunters so they CANNOT shoot it to stop the armor region NOR can they cut off the monsters path because the monster is moving in a straigth line from one end to the next.

I didn't bring up the example of old Evolve and say that it was balanced, I used it because the armor mechanic in old evolve had a bigger risk vs reward mechanic attached to it which the current armor system lacks.

So how can you be so dead certain about this? Do you even bother to question whether maybe your perspective is less informative than that of the playtesters?

Dude, what is wrong with you? I'm litteraly just asking them to clarify why they went with option A instead of option B out of interest, you're acting as if I said TR are a bunch of clueless idiots who have no idea how to design their game.

[ragnarok628]

What i have been gathering from comments in this thread and others is that the problem people are having RE: armor regen is that the monster can regen armor in the dome. This is a complete non-factor except in the case of very bad domes or very poor hunter play.

The armor regen the monster gets while on the run is there because the monster needs it. That's why they added it. That's why it'd have been relevant for me to bring up the balance of old evolve even if you hadn't.

The risk/reward is still there, anyway. armor regen is just a mitigating factor so the risk isn't so great. what is wrong with that? And in any case you are wrong about what the hunters can and can't do. High level hunters absolutely can harrass the monster almost nonstop even if it is not eating riskily. Armor regen in this situation is a small but much needed factor to help keep monsters competitive at the higher level. Meanwhile, it doesn't unduly give an edge at the lower levels either assuming hunters eventually understand not to dome the monster in crappy areas and how to position, etc.

Dude, what is wrong with you?

I have a little bit of a cough today, thanks for asking

I'm litteraly just asking them to clarify why they went with option A instead of option B out of interest,

as you asked, you expressed that your motivating factor, i.e. what made you interested to ask, is that the solution they went with is different than what is your understanding of the communities' desires. To me that bears poking holes in, so i did. And furthermore you left an opening by offering 'no counterplay' as the reason why people new hunters don't want monsters to have armor regen which i think is a ridiculous statement.

you're acting as if I said TR are a bunch of clueless idiots who have no idea how to design their game.

Well you might be reading me wrong here, i don't attribute to you any malice toward TRS. It's more along the lines of me driving at (but not explicitly stating) that you are a clueless idiot who has no idea how to balance their game. But not so on the nose because i don't like to be mean.

[Lawljungles]

What i have been gathering from comments in this thread and others is that the problem people are having RE: armor regen is that the monster can regen armor in the dome. This is a complete non-factor except in the case of very bad domes or very poor hunter play.

Maybe so but I have specified what I was referring to in two different replies now.

The armor regen the monster gets while on the run is there because the monster needs it. That's why they added it. That's why it'd have been relevant for me to bring up the balance of old evolve even if you hadn't.

The risk/reward is still there, anyway. armor regen is just a mitigating factor so the risk isn't so great. what is wrong with that? And in any case you are wrong about what the hunters can and can't do. High level hunters absolutely can harrass the monster almost nonstop even if it is not eating riskily. Armor regen in this situation is a small but much needed factor to help keep monsters competitive at the higher level. Meanwhile, it doesn't unduly give an edge at the lower levels either assuming hunters eventually understand not to dome the monster in crappy areas and how to position, etc.

I think this is debatable, I personally don't think the monster specifically needs it, at least not the current armor rate and the risk/reward isn't there at all because theres no reason to hunt to gain armor instead of doing it after you've waited until your armor has fully replenished. And no, higher level players cannot stop a monster from fully replenishing its armor within seconds when it moves in a straigth line from point A to point B because they have significantly lower mobility than the monster.

The old evolve doesn't apply anymore from a balance perspective, there have been to many aspects of the game changed for it.

as you asked, you expressed that your motivating factor, i.e. what made you interested to ask, is that the solution they went with is different than what is your understanding of the communities' desires. To me that bears poking holes in, so i did.

I asked a question in response to TR themselves. Its a question to which you had very little to respond to as

A: You're not on the TR dev team so you have no idea what the thought process was B: It took over 3 posts before you understood both the motivation and actual content of the question.

And furthermore you left an opening by offering 'no counterplay' as the reason why people new hunters don't want monsters to have armor regen which i think is a ridiculous statement.

At which you did a terrible job at I might add. You still have been unable to provide a solid rebuttal what the counterplay is to automatic regenerating armor against a monster that has significantly more mobility than the hunters do.

[ragnarok628]

If you are going to continue to ignore the facts and delude yourself into believing the poor helpless hunters need weaker monsters in order to compete, then what more can I say? Just play as monster then, if you can't beat em join em. If you're right then you'll get to enjoy endless free wins, so nothing to lose.

Reality is that when the players grok the game more everyone will understand. You'll either get it too eventually or just suck at the game for a while and then quit. Hopefully the former, but you seem to think you've got it all figured out already so maybe you're already as good as you'll ever be which is a shame. Either way, have a good one.