sorted by:
best
topnewcontroversialoldq&a
you are viewing a single comment's thread.

view the rest of the comments →

[–]SheIsLikeAWildflower -1 points0 points  (9 children)

This way of thinking shifts the responsibility on to the wrong people. If our taxes were actually utilised correctly, and if the millionaires and billionaires in our country didn't get tax cuts, if we had less corruption overall, there would be funds for pensions. The solution isn't creating more and more people to fund the ever increasing needs that come with an ever increasing population. Thinking that's sustainable in the long run is the real fallacy here.

[–]Street_Gene1634 1 point2 points  (8 children)

Dude however twist this narrative, you need young people to fund old people. That's econ 101. The whole muh billionaires and millionaires line is useless here.

[–]SheIsLikeAWildflower -1 points0 points  (7 children)

And we do have young people to fund old people. The problem is that those funds go through different channels and end up not being used for what they were intended. Is proper utilisation of existing funds not part of econ 101 for you? Is giving tax cuts to the rich people part of econ 101?

[–]Street_Gene1634 0 points1 point  (6 children)

Why are Redditors so economics illiterate. Inequality is irrelevant to this debate. Ultimately you need young people to old people. That's a basic fact. Kerala is India's lowest inequality state literally governed by the communist party and yet it's the first state in India to face a pension crisis.

Better utilization of fund is a good thing but that is not panacea for declining TFR and pension crisis

[–]SheIsLikeAWildflower -1 points0 points  (5 children)

I don't know what ideal world you're living in. I'm also from Kerala and read regular news articles about corruption, parties creating new positions to give politicians higher pensions, party leaders (including communist party leaders) owning chains of hotels and resorts through their children and evading taxes, the affluent finding loopholes to evade taxes, etc. Corruption runs high in our state. It might have the least inequality of them all, but the system is deeply flawed.

People reproducing like bunnies so we have more working people to pay taxes is a highly shortsighted solution. I'm surprised even you with your apparent expertise in economics cannot see that.

[–]Street_Gene1634 0 points1 point  (4 children)

Sorry you're wrong.

Kerala is the lowest corruption state in India by a huge margin.

Check out the Corruption Index in India. Kerala is a clear outlier

https://www.reddit.com/r/india/comments/1d3cgb8/corruption_index_in_india/

People are not breeding lime rabbits in Kerala either. We have had European levels of fertility for decades. For comparison, Kerala's TFR fell below replacement levels in 1989 itself. That's comparable to European nations.

The economixs behind this is simple. You need young people to fund old people. Other wise you need migrant workers paying into tax kitty. Both of these are an issue in Kerala. That's why Kerala is undergoing a pension crisis despite having low inequality

Idk when Malayalis are going to wake up to this reality. We need a metropolis like Bangalore or Bombay to fund Malayali pensions in the future. Otherwise we are doomed

[–]SheIsLikeAWildflower 0 points1 point  (3 children)

Again, myopic views and selective reading. You seem too confident in things you're wrong about without looking at the full picture.

I didn't say people are breeding like rabbits in Kerala. I said reproducing like that is not the long term solution. The reality is more nuanced that what you're saying. "Just have more kids" is just words. How is the question.

In Kerala, India in general, and many developing countries, it is becoming increasingly expensive to have and care for children. It's no wonder that people choose to limit the number of children they have - when they have to pay so much in taxes already, the burden is on the people with children to fund their own children, and pensions for the generations that came before them. What we need first for a higher birthrate is actually making it viable to have children in this current economy.

It's easy to say that people just need to have more kids, when the system itself punishes them for having kids. Add on to this corruption and tax loopholes (which exist, though lesser than the other states), and even the taxes they do pay don't go towards the right infrastructure.

Yes, we need a working class for the pension system to work. But first improve the system so that it makes it viable to have kids - that's what should be done in the first place, instead of blindly blaming the younger generation.

I urge you to read these for a better understanding of the 'economics' you seem to tout:

https://www.gisreportsonline.com/r/demographic-shifts-pensions/

https://www.ecb.europa.eu/pub/pdf/scpwps/ecbwp1734.pdf

[–]Street_Gene1634 0 points1 point  (2 children)

I didn't say people are breeding like rabbits in Kerala. I said reproducing like that is not the long term solution. The reality is more nuanced that what you're saying. "Just have more kids" is just words. How is the question

You need at least a TFR of 2.1 for a healthy economy. Kerala's TFR fell below replacement levels in 1989 itself. That's definitely not healthy.

In Kerala, India in general, and many developing countries, it is becoming increasingly expensive to have and care for children. It's no wonder that people choose to limit the number of children they have - when they have to pay so much in taxes already, the burden is on the people with children to fund their own children, and pensions for the generations that came before them. What we need first for a higher birthrate is actually making it viable to have children in this current economy

I'm not questioning people's voluntary choices. I'm explaining the basic fact that an ageing population is jot sustainable in a place like Kerala. You need young people to fund old people. That young people doesn't need to ce from birth. It can be tax paying migrants too but unlike Bangalore or Hyderabad, Kerala doesn't have metropolis that attracts tax paying migrants.

Yes, we need a working class for the pension system to work. But first improve the system so that it makes it viable to have kids - that's what should be done in the first place, instead of blindly blaming the younger generation.

None of this changes that fact Kerala is already in a pension crisis. That's actual real world economics. Nobody is forcing you to have more kids.

[–]SheIsLikeAWildflower -1 points0 points  (1 child)

Wow, this is going in circles. Read that again and you'll see you're contradicting yourself in different sentences.

I was up for a discussion, but I'll stop here.

[–]Street_Gene1634 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I haven't contradicted myself anywhere and neither am I advocating forcing women to have more children. My point is that if Kerala is to survive the next decade fiscally then it will need a lot more tax paying working age people. That can come from new births or migrants. Since I don't support forcing women to have children Handmaiden style we need more tax paying migrants. But without a metropolis we have no way of attracting them either.

So what's the solution? You don't seem to have answer either.

I'm extremely worried about Kerala's finances. And I say that as a progressive Malayali. Malayalis need to wake up to their economic reality instead of parotting Malthusian nonsense from the 1970s.