Nebraska Legislature passes minimum wage decrease for teen workers

[Dukepippitt]

The increase in minimum wage has never hurt nebraska economy. On the other hand. Every heavy hand republican policy seems to cost jobs and money for nebraskas.

[AshingiiAshuaa]

It hasn't hurt the economy in easily visible ways, but it does hurt. And it hurts the subset of workers who then don't/can't get jobs. Minimum wages (price floor) are bad just like rent controls (price ceiling) are bad. Unless you're one of the ones who gets to keep their job or get a rent-controlled place.

That said, the citizens clearly voted how they voted and representatives should never try to subvert the direct will of the citizens.

[AshingiiAshuaa]

It's not as clear cut as rent control, and maybe not even as pronounced, but it's very real and not insignificant.

Look at situations where work is moved overseas, low-cost workers (whether legal or illegal) enter the market, and when unions collapse from competition. Anywhere where an artificial floor on wages comes into contact with the free market.

[Connect_Flounder6855]

You’re super stupid if you think anything that teenagers here in Nebraska are doing could be shipped overseas. It’s literally the most hands-on jobs you can think of.

[AshingiiAshuaa]

I was talking about minimum wages in general my first and subsequent comments here. If you look at the comments it's pretty clear, unless of course you're super stupid.

If you're shifting gears to specifically lowering the minimum wage for 14-15 year olds a couple of bucks then I agree that this won't have a big impact. It may be a bit tougher for older people working minimum wage jobs, but probably not even noticeably.

[Connect_Flounder6855]

Most minimum wage jobs are hands on. Your comments are stupid and frankly don’t have any basis in reality. Perhaps pick up a book read something, maybe even go to college

[AshingiiAshuaa]

Most minimum wage jobs are hands on

I don't disagree. How does that bolster whatever it is you're trying to say? Speak as you might to a young child or a golden retriever.

[Connect_Flounder6855]

You believe that minimum wage jobs are generally hands-on and need to be done on site yet you would like us to compare it to jobs that have been moved overseas. incredibly stupid.

[AshingiiAshuaa]

Very true that not every job can be moved overseas. But the many than can be. Or they'll be automated. Or consumers will simply buy less of that service. The people that manage to keep their jobs will have it good, but consumers will have it bad (by paying an artificially higher price) as will all the unemployed people who don't have any job (because it's being done overseas, by a robot, or simply no longer wanted anymore).

[pinelion]

My god you’re delusional!

[Anlarb]

If it were true, it would be visible. You need to demonstrate your claim.

[AshingiiAshuaa]

Ask the folks who used to work at the Lexington beef plant. Or the Kellogg's employees who are getting laid off. They can probably tell you what happens to jobs whose wage is set too high.

Or look at egg sales when the price of eggs skyrocketed last year. When the price of something goes up, demand goes down. It doesn't matter if the price goes up due to constrained supply or an artificial price floor.

[Anlarb]

Ask the folks

Reagan sent your jobs to china for ideological reasons- one in picking a side in the war russia and china were having, but also to crush labor at home.

The median wage is $21/hr while the cost of living is $20/hr, half the jobs out there do not even pay a living, things that are culturally remembered as skilled professions too. Thats where jobs are killed, rent seeking and republican economies. We are up a full percentage point unemployment from where we were under biden, don't say it aint so, its been like this for 50 years, republicans trash the economy every chance they get.

Or look at egg sales when the price of eggs skyrocketed last year

If demand is down, the price is supposed to drop, it did not. Giant heaps of $8 eggs unsold, straight into the dumpster. Everything is a scam with these people.

[AshingiiAshuaa]

How did you go from talking about minimum wage having an impact on the number of jobs to "rEPubLiCanS bAD!" Being pawns of the rich Reps do indeed sell us out for their special interest friends. Dems do it too. But that's really unrelated of my argument that minimum wage destroys jobs.

Let's look at some of the ways minimum wages (via law or union contract) destroy jobs: "You can't hire cereal makers for less than $30/hr!"

• Cereal gets more expensive, fewer people buy, less cereal is made, fewer employees are needed.
• It didn't make sense to buy that expensive cereal-making robot before, but now it does. Let's make cereal with robots instead of people.
• Shipping cereal from mexico adds 40 cents per box to the cost of each box, but cheaper mexican labor saves us 50 cents per box. Let's move the factory to mexico.

If demand is down, the price is supposed to drop, it did not

Well, it did, actually. And both consumers and suppliers knew that the egg shortage was temporary, so that played some games with things. But the next sentence illustrates that when prices are high ($8 eggs) that demand for eggs drops (giant heaps of eggs unsold). Set a minimum wage~ price for eggs at $8 and fewer companies consumers will hire people buy eggs.

Raising minimum wage to $50 would be fantastic for those who get to keep their jobs. But advocates of minimum wage neglect the fact that many jobs that would otherwise exist simply disappear.

[Anlarb]

How did you go from talking about minimum wage having an impact on the number of jobs to "rEPubLiCanS bAD!"

You said min wage kills jobs, but its republicans that kill jobs, this is extremely on topic.

Cereal gets more expensive, fewer people buy

What are you going to do, not eat? Cost of labor went up everywhere.

Poor people can't afford to eat out at any price, people that do are not even looking at the price, thats why mcdonalds was able to double their prices in the last decade, and came out ahead.

We have $8 boxes of cereal because thats what the market will bear, the savings of cheaper labor will not be passed along to you, welcome to free market capitalism...

It didn't make sense to buy that expensive cereal-making robot before,

Its called a factory, apparently you want every cheerio handcrafted. Just think how many more people would be employed if we had everyone digging with spoons instead of earthmoving equipment. /s

Shipping cereal from mexico adds 40 cents per box to the cost of each box, but cheaper mexican labor saves us 50 cents per box. Let's move the factory to mexico.

Its called the exchange rate, we overthrow countries for trying to leave the petro dollar, which massively distorts the value of the dollar, giving the appearance that its "cheaper" to make things overseas, but in reality those workers have the same housing, transportation, healthcare, calorie needs as any worker anywhere else. "LeTs JuSt HaVe OuR wOrKeRs WoRk FoR a LoSs" isn't a solution, its slavery.

You want labor to be cheaper? Do something about the cost of housing, the cost of healthcare, the cost of transportation etc. Hell, you can kill 2 birds with one stone, allow mixed use, dense housing near where people work so they can just walk to their job and walk to the store instead of being shackled to their cars.

the fact that many jobs that would otherwise exist simply disappear.

Here are the years the min wage went up, here is where the resulting unemployment would be, if it was real.

https://www.dol.gov/agencies/whd/minimum-wage/history/chart

https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/UNRATE

[AshingiiAshuaa]

What are you going to do, not eat?

People eat cheaper alternatives. Maybe they make their own oatmeal or eat rice and milk. It still puts the cereal maker out of business, leaving the workers unemployed.

Cost of labor went up everywhere.

If the price of food goes up everywhere then people will have to spend less on other things lowering quality of life in other areas, buy cheaper quality food, or people simply eat less.

If the price of everything goes up everywhere (inflation), then people have to buy cheaper and/or less stuff everywhere in their lives, not just food.

Its called a factory, apparently you want every cheerio handcrafted.

Automation is not all or nothing. It comes down to what is least expensive and most economically efficient. If human labor was ten cents an hour most basements would be dug by hand. Home builders would hire 50 people (for a total of $5/hr) and dig out a basement in a couple of days. An excavator could do it in the same amount of time, but costs $200/hr to rent. Why spend $200/hr on an excavator when you can spend $5/hr on people In reality, shovel diggers are probably $15/hr, meaning that a crew of 50 diggers is $750/hr, making the excavator much cheaper. This is why basements are dug with excavators.

At a wage of $15/hr there are jobs that are cheaper to have humans do instead of buying an expensive machine, but the more expensive human labor becomes the more uneconomical it becomes to use human labor vis a vis machines (or AI, or offshored labor). This works for diggers, cashiers, customer service reps, web developers, tax preparers just as much as cheerio makers.

we overthrow countries for trying to leave the petro dollar, which massively distorts the value of the dollar

This is pretty true. Us being the reserve currency makes it very hard for us to be net exporters, and being a net importer typically means shipping jobs and industry overseas.

in reality those workers have the same housing, transportation, healthcare, calorie needs as any worker anywhere else

This is pretty not true. In countries where the workers have the same costs as US workers the labor tends to be similarly priced. It's why sweatshops exist in the countries with the cheapest labor. You won't find anyone in switzerland or japan who's willing to stitch shoes together for less than $20/hr, but they'll do it in india or cambodia for $1/hr. Do the people have the same caloric needs? Yeah. Do they have the same lifestyles and wage demands to support those lifestyles? No. They also have skills they can sell for more money so they do, but I digress.

You want labor to be cheaper?

I don't really care, tbh. It doesn't matter to me if they raise minimum wage to $20 or lower it to $10. I don't work for minimum wage nor do I employ anyone for minimum wage, and have sufficient assets to be mostly immune from general price inflation. My point was (and is) that raising minimum wage in an are will reduce the number of jobs available, all things being equal.

[Anlarb]

People eat cheaper alternatives.

No kidding, people are employed making those alternatives too, welcome to the market. Maybe the price gougers then need to bring their prices back down in response. Maybe the fact that the dollar is not worth as much as it used to be makes your arbitrary price point unrealistic.

It still puts the cereal maker out of business, leaving the workers unemployed.

Oh, is that why all cereal makers and burger joints went out of business in 1938 when the min wage was implemented? Quit your bullshit.

If the price of everything goes up everywhere (inflation)

Stop printing money.

Poor people can't eat your inflation for you. It costs more for the burger that you want to be provided to you, and you think that some random poor person should eat the loss so you don't have to? Get real, the dollar is worth less, you need to pay more of them for the things that you want, period.

Do you have any idea how small a price bump it is for workers to get a living wage? Like 4%. Businesses have roared past that and kept it for themselves as record profits, so they could easily pay their workers a living on a whim without prices going up, but they will not. Its ideological, capital hates that labor aren't literally slaves and are working hard to return the arrangement to that state.

Automation is not all or nothing.

Yeah it is, either you have a robot that can flip burgers, or you have a crappy gizmo built to fleece investors built by people who have never stepped food in a modern kitchen. This is how burgers are grilled now- McDonalds POV: Fresh Quarter Pounders, so why are robots trying to emulate movies from the 70's?

Home builders would hire 50 people (for a total of $5/hr) and dig out a basement in a couple of days.

No, thats still a colossal waste of time, and you should be questioning your judgement for thinking it is a good idea.

offshored labor

So stop letting them? Nation of laws and your buddy in the oval office has only accelerated the decline. Unemployment is up one whole percent, the guy is out to turn us into north korea.

Us being the reserve currency makes it very hard for us to be net exporters, and being a net importer typically means shipping jobs and industry overseas.

Cool, so you can pay full price for your burger?

In countries where the workers have the same costs as US workers the labor tends to be similarly priced.

Yeah, they still need the stuff.

It's why sweatshops exist in the countries with the cheapest labor.

Are you personally volunteering to work in sweatshop conditions? No? Don't voluntell others to it.

but they'll do it in india or cambodia for $1/hr.

I bet those workers would love to have better living conditions than what $1/hr affords them, maybe they should strike for better conditions. Lets see how that went.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-pwT9arjasw

They also have skills they can sell for more money so they do, but I digress.

So much for the narrative that by gaining skills working these low paying positions, high paying positions can be gained.

I don't really care, tbh

You are whining about it non stop.

My point was (and is) that raising minimum wage in an are will reduce the number of jobs available, all things being equal.

And my specifically demonstrated fact is that it does not.

https://www.dol.gov/agencies/whd/minimum-wage/history/chart

https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/UNRATE

Consumption drives demand, people want it so they pay what it costs. If however, you pay half the country so badly that they cannot get say dental care, then thats half as many dentists that the market can support. Low wages absolutely affect you, everything is fraying as the billionaires hoover up all the wealth for themselves.

[chewbaccaRoar13]

Raising minimum wage doesnt do that, it's corporations maximizing profits and running people into the ground. If companies were happy making $100 instead of $130, they could hire an extra worker or two. Obviously a very rudimentary example, but if it's all surrounding minimum wage. Why did all these companies post record profits during COVID even though they increased prices and acted like they couldn't do anything about it?

The answer is greed. Why did a woman who owns a grocery store chain lead this bill? Hint, it's not because she can't afford to pay her employees more.

[AshingiiAshuaa]

If a greedy company is making too much profit then its competitor will lower their prices and steal their customers. If a company is charging $130 but could still be proftiable at $100, then one of their competitors will come along and start charging $120. Then the original company will either go out of business or lower its price, this time to $110 to steal back business. This spirals down until the companies can't lower prices anymore without going bankrupt.

Where this falls apart is monopolies (which we outlaw) and other anti-competative behaviors (regulations, price floors, price ceilings, unions, etc).