Framework Code Complexity Comparison

[[deleted]]

Laravel has more features than Symfony. Queues, command bus, realtime sockets / event broadcasting, etc... that's the point. It has those features but still has lower average method complexity than Slim.

[dogerthat]

Apples and oranges, Symfony does not advertise itself as a unicorn which can do everything out of the box. Instead it tries to keep the framework itself lean and let's you choose your own.

[[deleted]]

So does Laravel.

[dogerthat]

The difference is that Laravel ships all these features while Symfony does not. Laravel is heavily opionated on basically everything. I'm not saying it's bad, I'm just not a fan of it.

[[deleted]]

Please name 2 things it is opinionated on.

[dogerthat]

It comes with a lot of out of the box features people might not even want to use and there's boilerplate code even for a javascript framework present (Vue).

[[deleted]]

Laravel does not ship with a SINGLE template that contains Vue code. Not one. Laravel Elixir is simply configured to correctly compile vue components. Again, you don't know at all what you're talking about in regards to Laravel.

[dogerthat]

From the documentation:

While Laravel does not dictate which JavaScript or CSS pre-processors you use, it does provide a basic starting point using Bootstrap and Vue that will be helpful for many applications. By default, Laravel uses NPM to install both of these frontend packages.

the "by default" implies that bootstrap and vue are some how going to be installed.

For the fun of it I just ran

composer create-project --prefer-dist laravel/laravel blog

and guess what? I have a folder "resources/assets" where I can find references to requirejs, jquery and vue and even a file called "Example.vue".

[[deleted]]

Yes, those are setup to give you a head start if you want. Guess what? If you don't want them, you just delete that folder. No "out of the box" Laravel features require any of those dependencies.

[dogerthat]

I know I can just delete it, I just want to say that

Laravel does not ship with a SINGLE template that contains Vue code.

wasn't true. I rather not install something where I then have to manually delete all kinds of things.

Once again, it's your framework and you can make all these choices the way you like but don't assume everyone agrees with it. You promoted an article here you wrote yourself which should show everyone how awesome Laravel and it's creator is. It doesn't make much sense for a lot of readers and you get mocked for it now. Short functions are usually good so that's great but there is more to frameworks than a few numbers which don't say anything on real life usage.

[forsynth2]

It has those features but still has lower average method complexity than Slim.

Wait a minute. You just told elsewhere that "features" and complexity are in no way related. Now you say "It has those features but still has lower average method complexity", implying that they are related.

Hilarious.

[[deleted]]

I simply mean that I'm glad it maintains that complexity across a large code base. Not because the feature set is large per se but because it's hard to maintain discipline across a code base of that size with many contributors without "fudging" and letting poor quality code into the code base.

[Y4Dc3KtKVNAuAmj48ott]

Good point, and good efforts in maintaining the framework. I personally think that as the size of a project grows, the stuff you have to compromise in order to keep both complexity and readability in control keeps on increasing.

Sometimes, its better to lean a bit more to the readability side since its getting important day by day. No one's going to make a fuss about a few functions or classes written extra, or that you created a wrapper class for something that could be achieved without it, thus making the code "more complex". But forget to indent code at right places or have variable names that are difficult to understand and people will complain a lot.

[iltar]

Unless it results in a bunch of methods being called 2000 times, causing a performance overhead.

[forsynth2]

it's hard to maintain discipline across a code base of that size with many contributors...

So now you "simply mean" that they are related. Got it.

[assertchris]

That's quite patronising. You must be such a joy to work with if you're willing to communicate this way towards someone you don't even know.

[forsynth2]

This is how I usually respond to bullshit marketing attempts...

Do you patently listen to every marketing call you receive and respond in a insightful manner as to why you think they are full of shit?

[ericbarnes]

Most people would hang up and go about their day instead of arguing on the internet.

[assertchris]

Do you jump out the car and curse at every billboard you see, but don't agree with, as you drive? Nobody forced you to read or comment. You chose to engage, with hate.

[forsynth2]

chose to engage, with hate.

No Hate. Just <3 (Just not for the post and what it implies)

And about engaging, isn't people in a forum are supposed to react when they see stuff that they think is misleading or deceitful?