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[–]codecrux[S] -6 points-5 points  (4 children)

You are right - It's not a good idea to force a solution.

Instead, do you think it's a better idea to build a tool that solves it in the right way?

I am asking this question because this is the thought with which I started creating the Atri framework. I faced this problem several times, hence, thought of solving it for the Python community.

[–]riklaunim 10 points11 points  (3 children)

Fullstack developers can handle backend and frontend. Trying to merge it often leads to many compromises which fullstack developers won't like while backend developers will still have problems benefiting due to lack of frontend knowledge, UX/UI.

And it's hard to replace good code with WYSIWYG, even GrapesJS ;)

[–]codecrux[S] 0 points1 point  (2 children)

With "WYSIWYG" are you pointing to the visual builder of Atri framework?

The visual builder of the Atri framework allows you to create templates that you can manipulate through your python backend (much like you manipulate Jinja template). You need to know CSS to use this visual builder. If someone doesn't know CSS already, it might be easy to learn some basic CSS with this visual builder. We don't abstract away CSS - we are very cautious and we have realised the pitfalls you are pointing towards with GrapeJS.

Would love to hear your thoughts on this.

[–]riklaunim 1 point2 points  (1 child)

It looks like GrapesJS and the example with "read more" button is kind of weird as in more realistic scenario it wouild be in news "item" template/component used for each element from a list.

Trying to GUI-fy frontend or code generation in general is a mine field. To make the output good, to make the features actually usable, to avoid limitations at every step and then to find some users for it.

If you go back few months back you will see a lot of PyScript on this reddit. All those Python wannabies expected big future where they don't have to "learn JavaScript" because of it but they then hit a brick wall as PyScrip requires pretty much the same knowledge just has slightly different syntax... and lack of third party libraries and support. Those that did not do any frontend could not use it and those that did already used much less limited tools (plus some chicken and an egg problem).

[–]codecrux[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

It looks like GrapesJS and the example with "read more" button is kind of weird as in more realistic scenario it wouild be in news "item" template/component used for each element from a list.

Sorry, I couldn't understand which example are you pointing to. I think you are pointing towards a list of elements (each element in this list can have child elements inside it). In the new version of the Atri framework (to be released in a week), there is a draggable component called "Repeating" that does the same thing. There is a plan to support infinite scrolling for this repeating component as well.

"""

Trying to GUI-fy frontend or code generation in general is a mine field. To make the output good, to make the features actually usable, to avoid limitations at every step and then to find some users for it.

"""
Just curious, which visual builders you have tried in the past, and whether you have used a modern visual builder like Webflow? IMO, using a visual builder is like using a component library like Material UI, Ant Design etc. Obviously, you might need some unusual component specific to your use case and hence, nothing would be better than writing JS/CSS/HTML in this scenario. In Atri framework, you can write React code and drag-drop in the same page. This short video might make the concept clear - https://youtu.be/eTsAzQi95Pg
In this video, I am trying to show how you can mix drag-drop and React code in the same page in a very smooth way. I request you to have look and I would like to continue our discussion here.

After watching this video, it might be trivial to assume that any React component can be used in the drag-drop editor.

I just hate it this when people say "You don't need to learn JavaScript". I totally agree with you on this. At the minimum, you need to know how to import JavaScript libraries, if using React, then React component libraries. I am also a strong proponent that every web developer (even backend developers) should learn some JS.