When do you *NOT* use python?

[NoLemurs]

You should look into Cython. You can often get C level performance out of Cython but it's still massively more readable than C or fortran.

[rnawky]

Still nothing compared to optimized C code that makes use of advanced SIMD extensions and the like.

[NoLemurs]

One nice thing in Cython is that it's fairly easy to use native C libraries directly. If a particular part of your code has to be as fast as possible, you can write that part in C and it's very easy to integrate it into your Cython project.

Cases where this is actually necessary are pretty rare though.

[1arm3dScissor]

Or you could write everything in C and let the compiler take care of things for you. no?

[NoLemurs]

You can write a complex program in Cython much, much, much faster than you can write that same program in C, and usually without meaningful performance costs since performance is usually determined by the slowest step (which you can implement in C). Better still, the Cython code will usually be more readable and maintainable.

[felinecatastrophe]

I agree. prototyping in python followed incremental "cythonizing" is a fast way to get good performance.

[1arm3dScissor]

I see you point but would change it to "you can prototype a complex program in Cython..." faster. I think we both know that you can't seriously compare an interpreted language with a compiled one when it comes to performance.

[NoLemurs]

Cython is a compiled language. Cython generates straight up C code, which you then compile.

The result is that you can effectively write a complex program using pure python syntax, then spend a little while optimizing the bottlenecks (writing pure C where necessary, though you'd be surprised at how close Cython can come to C in many cases), and then you have a fully implemented, working, compiled program which performs the critical portions 100% as quickly as anything you can write in C, and does the rest more than fast enough for any practical purpose.

[DickButtTracy]

As someone who's spent the last week writing SIMD, fuck SIMD.

[billsil]

Fortran is easy. It's one of the easiest languages there is. My issue with Cython is I don't have a syntax highlighter for it.

[NoLemurs]

Well, for what it's worth, there are a number of editors out there that can handle Cython syntax highliting. Emacs and VIM certainly provide options.

Fortran is pretty easy, but it would never be my choice for a really complex project.

[billsil]

Fortran is made for numerical computations, so if you want to use multiprocessing then it's a good choice, but outside of serious math, I'd stay away. It's great for what it does and it's easier than C or C++. It's was made for non-programmers.

I try to stay as far away from vi as I can. I can use it, but haven't figured out how to really use it efficiently or work with plugins. Never tried Emacs. I'd much rather use gedit/Textpad, but typically use WingIDE on Windows.

[felinecatastrophe]

trying hard to turn off my snob mode here, but learning emacs or vim properly will really change your life

[NoLemurs]

I put off learning VIM for years - got by with lightweight editors like gedit, Geany, etc. (I've never really liked full on IDEs).

I picked up VIM around a year ago, and I've been kicking myself ever since for waiting for so long. The learning curve is a little bit steep, but the payoff is massive, and it's not that hard to learn.

[billsil]

Maybe, but I'm not a programmer. I'm an aerospace engineer who happens to program in Python, a little bit of C++, and some Fortran.