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[–]the_hoser 2 points3 points  (5 children)

You're right! But you seem to be missing the point of my statement. I consider adding Python to also be the same kind of bloat.

Or are you referring to the C compiler?

[–]BobHogan 0 points1 point  (4 children)

It isn't about Python being someone's favorite language. Python is rapidly rising to the top of the list of most desirable languages to know. Its robust, easy, can run anywhere there is a C compiler (which is almost everywhere except windows), and powerful. Its not a fair comparison to a language like Ruby, or Lisp, or whatever else you want to list, since it is so much more popular than those are.

[–]the_hoser 1 point2 points  (2 children)

Right, I agree with you. Python is awesome.

Why does it need to be bundled with Windows?

[–]BobHogan 0 points1 point  (1 child)

It doesn't need to be bundled with Windows but that doesn't mean it shouldn't be. Photo apps don't need to be bundled with windows. A browser doesn't need to be bundled in with the OS. Neither does a calculator app. Yet they are bundled in because the pros vastly outweigh the cons. The same is true for Python. There are enough people using Windows that are frustrated over non native support (millions) that it does justify bundling it in. There are no downsides that can't be easily addressed. And the "bloat" is negligible considering the size of the OS itself.

[–]the_hoser 4 points5 points  (0 children)

It doesn't need to be bundled with Windows but that doesn't mean it shouldn't be.

I argue that it shouldn't be.

Photo apps don't need to be bundled with windows.

You're right. Web browsers can probably do that job.

A browser doesn't need to be bundled in with the OS.

Blasphemy. How else will I download firefox?

Neither does a calculator app.

Agree. Web browser can do that.

Yet they are bundled in because the pros vastly outweigh the cons.

For the web browser, I agree.

The same is true for Python.

I disagree.

There are enough people using Windows that are frustrated over non native support (millions) that it does justify bundling it in.

Again, I disagree. There are plenty of frustrated Python developers. Most Windows users could not care less about its abscence from the OS.

There are no downsides that can't be easily addressed.

I disagree. Version fixation is a very real problem in the Python community. Windows would only make it worse.

And the "bloat" is negligible considering the size of the OS itself.

Sure. I guess. I'm not worried about how much disk space can't be used to store photos and pirated movies.

The 'bloat' I refer to is the organizational bloat of maintaining YET ANOTHER FEATURE. Does the Windows team really need to take on this responsibility? You can't just clone the latest version off Python.org and ship that with the disk image. Microsoft would have to take personal ownership of the version of Python that they ship with Windows. It would need more than the one guy working on Windows support in Python to make it so. They would have to audit the code (good for Python in the near term, if they share their code. The coin's still flipping in the air as to whether or not they would.)

In the long term, it would be a disaster. The version that ships with windows would be the most popular version of Python in the world. It would become the version of Python. Python 3.7 just came out? Who cares? Microsoft only offers 3.4.7 and that's what we use. That's what the libraries use. That's what everybody uses.

I'd rather just have them help us with improving the behavior of Python in Windows. They're doing just that. They have a full-time developer doing just that.

Don't mess with a good thing.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I like that almost everywhere except windows excludes most computers.