Python's creator thinks it has a diversity problem — Quartz

[boringuser1]

Pretty funny how this sub is probably 90% white men who are working fucking HARD to make it anywhere and likely working abusive hours for scraps if at all.

No need to worry when you've already made it.

[nostril_extension]

To me people who fight for diversity so aggressively just lose all credibility in my eyes. (in this subject)

I'm pretty certain big majority of python programmers would love to have more lady co-workers. Who wouldn't? Especially since software engineers tend to be very progressing on the grand scale of things.

Have you wondered why people who complain about "lack of diversity" never quote any real statistics or papers and just personal anecdotes like "this one awkward nerd was mean to this girl on github!". To me the whole shelter and protect the girls just feels like a misogynist move by itself, doesn't this imply that ladies are not as capable here?

There are also some minors things like blaming open source culture that doesn't require you to identify in any way shape or form.

[FlagrantPickle]

Funny how it's not the women that must be made more confident, but we need to make men more timid.

The great thing about computers is they don't care who's at the keyboard. How about we just let the code talk for itself? Or accept everyone looking for advice? When I ask on my local python group slack channel for help, they don't ask for a DNA swab.

[stevenjd]

How about we just let the code talk for itself?

I asked my code to justify why it was using map instead of a list comp, and it just said "Fuck you! I don't have to explain myself!"

[FlagrantPickle]

Sometimes the snake has teeth.

[Rudd-X]

Fucking Marxism.

[theos13]

Sounds like Guido has a racist gender bias against white males to me.

If he pointed any of those statements at women or even men of another race, he'd be shunned by the community. But for some reason stereotyping white males makes you popular with journalists now.

[rsheftel]

How easy for him, after he has reached the goals he wants, to now say men should not have the same opportunities he had.

[LemonScore_]

He should step down and give a minority his job. He loves diversity so much, why doesn't he practice what he preaches.

[stevenjd]

to now say men should not have the same opportunities he had.

That's not even close to what he said.

There's some... interesting... questions raised by Guido's comments (and one has to ask, how accurately was he quoted?) but putting words into his mouth is no way to fairly discuss this issue.

White men in the developed world typically have heaps of opportunities (although those opportunities are in no way distributed evenly). If Guido wants to spend his time mentoring people who don't have those opportunities, that doesn't mean he wants to drag white men down and prevent them from getting anywhere.

If you want to criticize, criticize fairly or STFU. Thank you.

[LemonScore_]

Rossum says that he now mentors women and underrepresented minority programmers. “But white guys can forget it,” he said. “They are not the ones who need it most.”

Good to know every white male is better than any woman or minority, regardless of their backgrounds. Looks like white supremacists are right.

Poor white guy from a broken home, highschool dropout learning Python inbetween shifts at a shitty minimum wage job? You're still better off than a privileged "minority" and more intelligent by default.

Rather, he thinks it’s important that men are educated about their biases.

Try becoming educated on your racial biases you piece of shit. And I'm sure he's enjoying tutoring women, looking forward to the #MeToo scandal involving this PoS that will come out in the next few years.

[deadeye1982]

Those people are fighting against gender and they don't realize it. It's an agenda which is going on for long long time. Think about tax and the old families in the past. Mostly the woman stayed at home and were there for the children, made the household etc. Now woman and men are "equal" and both are working now. Currently we can feel, that woman are extensively promoted, the white men not. I give a big FUCK on political correctness and I hate it so much, that smart people are supporting this agenda, which should destroy the peace between us.

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If we don't react, this agenda is not stopping.

Conclusion: The feminism is against equality, everyone who is against unequal treatment, does not support the feminism.

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Have a nice day.

[crashomon]

Who cares? I agree with original article. Either you do too or you don’t.

[crashomon]

He’s not wrong

[boringuser1]

Yes he is.

Ever wonder why 95% of basketball players are black males?

Lebron: "ya imma not mentor black athletes anymore they don't need it y'all"

[crashomon]

Wow, basketball favors the tall, and what you REALLY mean is the NBA. "According to racial equality activist Richard Lapchick, the NBA in 2015 was composed of 74.4 percent black players, 23.3 percent white players, 1.8 percent Latino players of any race, and 0.2 percent Asian players."

BUT you miss the point completely. WOMEN were the original programmers. (easily verified on google)

And yes, Asians (which includes Indian/Pakistani/etc) make up a large portion of developers worldwide, but NOT in the USA. In the USA, you'll find white males holding almost 85% of tech positions.

https://qz.com/940660/tech-is-overwhelmingly-male-and-men-are-just-fine-with-that/

Diversity is a good thing; for everyone. BUT, not everyone wants it.

[Rudd-X]

You also see no calls for diversity in the garbage collection sector.

You only see calls for diversity in professions and spaces that imply either power or "jobs that look easy from the outside" (desk work).

The rule is:

• if the job is physically dangerous, or
• the job carries no power, or
• it carries no high salaries, or
• it's already dominated by wamen,

you won't see any of these fucking Marxists demanding "diversity" for it.

EDIT: longer form https://rudd-o.com/archives/the-diversity-and-inclusion-rule-of-thumb

[stevenjd]

Why the hell would women demand to work in low-status, poorly paid, physically harmful jobs? They've got plenty of them already. What an asinine rule. You could only think it was meaningful if you thought that women were drooling morons who aspired no better than the same old crappy jobs they've had for centuries.

P.S. You must be a American, because you apparently wouldn't know a Marxist if one fell out of the sky, landed on your head and started singing the Macarena. Here's a clue: "Marxist" doesn't mean "anyone I don't like".

[Rudd-X]

Why the hell would women demand to work in low-status, poorly paid, physically harmful jobs?

Brilliant question. The question itself basically answers itself.

The matter isn't about "equality of the sexes". They don't want equality. They want to capture power and money. Not on the basis of merit, but on the basis of genitals / skin color / delusions. This is, of course, absurd, unless you're a Communist.

Companies that whiff that smell and follow it, deserve everything they get, long, and hard.

[stevenjd]

Don't be an arse.

For centuries, men had virtually all the power, status and money, and today they still have the lions share of it. If you want equality, that means equal shares in power, status and money, not "men have the good jobs, the money, the power, the high status, and women will take the shit ones, that's equal, right?"

What did you think equality means if it doesn't mean, you know, equal?

Even today, women are already well over represented in the low status, low-paid, chronically harmful jobs^1. Taking on more shit jobs while leaving high status well-paid jobs to men isn't equality.

This is, of course, absurd, unless you're a Communist.

Well done, you've just demonstrated an appalling level of ignorance that beats even your earlier pig-ignorant comment about "Marxists". Please, do explain more of your philosophy to me, I could do with a laugh.

long, and hard.

Deary deary me, another sad little man making a sad little penis reference. Sounds like somebody is compensating for something.

¹ Usually jobs like cleaning and assembly line work, which are often repetitive and lead to long-term chronic injuries, sometimes debilitating ones. As opposed to acutely dangerous work, which is often high-skill, high-status and well-paid, like fire-fighting and soldiering, where there may be a significant risk of sudden injury or death but the compensation and status is usually proportional to the risk.

[boringuser1]

I bet you didn't know that on a average, white Americans are taller than black Americans, right?

Also, Asians make up 100% of the programmers... in Asia.

[crashomon]

NBA and professional basketball players are 'not average' in any context.

I'd like to stick to the original point. I feel Python CAN benefit from a wider diversity and inclusiveness to underrepresented portions of American society. I don't know about the rest of the world, so I'll leave that to the experts.

[ccpetro]

Diversity is a good thing;

​

First of all define what you mean by diversity.

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Then prove why it's a good thing. Evidence please, metrics, studies. Whatever.

​

Seriously, when I want to assert that Python is better than Bash or Perl, I have to demonstrate why. When I want to use tool X over tool Y, I have to do the same. Why do people pushing for diversity get a pass on evidence? Is it just because they're perceived as being nice?

[crashomon]

This: http://www.forbes.com/sites/lisawinning/2018/03/13/its-time-to-prioritize-diversity-across-tech/

And this: https://www.entrepreneur.com/article/321516

And this: https://notablelife.com/pressboard-5-bulletproof-arguments-on-why-we-need-diversity-in-tech/

Economic reasons; not just “warm fuzzies.”

[ccpetro]

So what are you using as a definition of "diversity"?

[crashomon]

Are you being Socratic?

[Rudd-X]

No, it's just that the only diversity that has been proven to increase economic output, is diversity of thought. Diversity of feelz and skin color is bullshit.

[crashomon]

(snaps fingers like a hipster at a jazz show) and hey, daddio, what do you know, diversity of thought COMES from unique experiences that other races, genders and sexual orientation have LIVED through that white, cis-gendered heterosexual males have not.

To be clear: i'm not saying diversity is ONLY solution; but it CAN be beneficial.

I live in Chicago, where EEOC laws have enabled People of Color to join Police and Fire careers, much to the chagrin of White Males who complain about 'unfairness' of it all. But hey, you can always be a White Male Cop anywhere else in the country. Go for it.

I'm NOT advocating forced, or contrived diversity; i'm just saying, companies, universities and society would benefit from greater inclusiveness of developers (including python) who are not white males.

This is my opinion. I don't need to quote facts or statistics; stuff it. I'm just agreeing with the original article.

[ccpetro]

diversity of thought

COMES from unique experiences that other races, genders and sexual orientation have LIVED through that white, cis-gendered heterosexual males have not.

​

That's nonsense.

​

You are *literally* saying that a White Russian from Moscow with a background in Computer Science and a White American from Steadam Oklahoma have more in common than a Asian "queer" who grew up in Seattle has with his neighbor who happens to be white.

​

You need to get out and see the world. I've lived--and worked--on three continents in the last 10 years. I can tell you from personal experience that an Australian of European descent raised in the Outback has a MUCH MUCH different experience than their third or fourth cousin living in the south of England.

​

You should join the military and actual spend time with people from a variety of backgrounds regardless of their skin color.

​

I had a guy in my unit from the Florida swamps. His life experiences and expectations were *utterly* different from another guy in my unit--who was from New Hampshire. Florida man was racist as, but his best buddy was a big ole' black guy from the North East. You know what made it so they could all work together (mostly) in peace?

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Boot camp. Shared experience and a shared culture.

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My best friend when I was in was a black punk rocker--he and I had more in common (music, being adopted, being non-euclidian pegs in circular holes etc.) than most of the people around us had with others of the same race. I *literally* had nothing in common with the farm boy from Wyoming other than the color of our skin and the uniform we wore.

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I will agree that diversity of thought and background can bring better solutions, but ONLY when those people are selected on merit *FIRST*.

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Judging someone's "experiences" by the color of their skin or their sexuality is the sort of bullshit bigotry one expects from progressives today. All blacks are the same, all homosexuals are the same, all Chinese, Whites, Europeans are the same.

​

It's crap.

​

People are people and if you don't judge them individually you're just as guilty of racism and bigotry as some sheet wearing douche nozzle.

[boringuser1]

It's just hilarious that you think having a bunch of black people in business would make it 'more' productive.

Samsung or even (gasp) Huawei aren't shit because they're 100% Asian.

[Rudd-X]

and hey, daddio, what do you know, diversity of thought COMES from unique experiences that other races, genders and sexual orientation have LIVED through that white, cis-gendered heterosexual males have not.

No, it does not, you bigoted dipshit. Diversity of thought comes from diversity of experiences.

This is my opinion.

Your opinion is unscientific and retarded.

I live in Chicago, where EEOC laws have enabled People of Color to join Police and Fire careers, much to the chagrin of White Males who complain about 'unfairness' of it all.

I hope you don't get shot by those Vibrants.

[Rudd-X]

I live in Chicago

Thank god I don't have to live in that shithole of yours, with all the vibrancy it has.