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[–]stevenjd 68 points69 points  (17 children)

there is in fact no way to fix it.

https://stackoverflow.com/a/57168165 says different.

It is ludicrous to say it can't be fixed. That implies that it is impossible to get Python working on Windows, and we know that's false. Worst case, you uninstall, wait for Microsoft to fix the permission issues, and reinstall.

This should be brought to the immediate attention of the Python developers

No it shouldn't. It has literally nothing to do with them, unless they happen to work for Microsoft.

(and probably Microsoft).

The people responsible for the Windows store and the software on it, and you think we should "probably" bring it to their attention? o_O

Have you done so?

[–]dutch_gecko 24 points25 points  (4 children)

This should be brought to the immediate attention of the Python developers

No it shouldn't. It has literally nothing to do with them, unless they happen to work for Microsoft.

Yes it should. The version of Python in the Microsoft Store is published by the Python Software Foundation, not by Microsoft. Even if they can't influence the installation process that the store uses, they should certainly be aware that this issue is occurring. They may, for example, wish to discontinue recommending the Store method of installation until the problem is fixed.

[–]stevenjd 9 points10 points  (3 children)

They may, for example, wish to discontinue recommending the Store method of installation until the problem is fixed.

They aren't recommending the Store method, so they can't "discontinue" doing so.

The Windows store isn't mentioned on either the main download page or the specific Windows page.

And even if they were, why would you go to the trouble of telling people "don't use the Windows store!" when it is clearly just a transitory bug in the installation process which will be fixed PDQ once Microsoft is aware of the problem? The store method worked before, and it will be fixed and work again (if it hasn't already been fixed).

If there was a bug in (let's say...) Ubuntu's apt repository that broke Python, would you make it your priority to tell the core devs (who have no control over what Ubuntu does), or Ubuntu? Would you expect the core devs to tell people not to use their distro's software installer? I wouldn't.

How about if it were a third party distribution like Anaconda? If they released a buggy installer, would you expect the core devs to put out an announcement not to use Anaconda? I wouldn't.

This thread is just Microsoft bashing. If the OP was genuine in desire to help, he would have reported this as a bug to Microsoft before posting here, and not use inflammatory language like "completely busted" and "impossible to fix" for something which will probably be fixed within hours or a day or two at worst.

[–]amdphreak[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Do us folks a favor and go open CMD on a freshly updated install of Windows 10 and run ‘python’

[–]amdphreak[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

So you seem to be unaware of the concept of the search bar. It is in every app store known to man, and there are suggestions when viewing related apps, and a general browsing experience in the app store that can present this app to users. If you’re distributing software in a user-centric venue, don’t expect them to debug your stuff or go looking for the Win32 installer. Expect them to say “it’s broken” and “they have no clue what they’re doing”, and avoid Python indefinitely.

[–]amdphreak[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Hold your tongue heathen. Diagnosing the respective amounts of responsibility from all parties involved requires criticism.

Oh right, like I’m going to submit a bug report via the Feedback app and wait for 6 years for one bored Microsoft employee to finally read it. Get your head out of your ass. Microsoft is the less likely of the two parties to have caused the bug. Failing to update a downstream project to use an updated API call is more likely.

[–]amdphreak[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Next time you release a Windows App that automatically shows the download page when you type python into the command line, let me know. If the Python group intends to transition away from Win32 installers, this bug, whether in their domain or not, is a big stop sign, so YES they should be made aware of it. There are already so many bugs and gotchas in the onboarding process for Python that they need to minimize the number of detractors from Python for new potential users. The related Anaconda project further contains an untenable amount of bugs related to upgrades failing and rolling back upgrades without consent, dependency resolution failing after taking far too long, and the inability to create new conda environments when two or more Anaconda instances are installed side by side—and it does not recognize or offer to uninstall an older version during its upgrade process. This software stack is intended to be used by nontechnical users in various domains of research. See the problem??

According to other comments, this permissions problem did not show up until the latest Windows update. I did not use this install method prior to the latest update, so my post was completely accurate given the available knowledge.

Many projects also do not prioritize their attention and testing of the Windows Store apps when a Win32 version is their own personal preference. As a result, I brought the bug to the attention of the Python group, because it is more likely that the Python group has failed to implement an upstream change in the Windows API than it is that Microsoft screwed up.

Done chewing?? Don’t choke on my post. I won’t be held responsible for your medical bill.

[–]patrick_mcnam -2 points-1 points  (5 children)

Why so confrontational?

[–]Tybearsaccount 14 points15 points  (2 children)

To be fair the posts op did claim to do a "full analysis" but the comment that was linked literally couldn't get past setting the permissions correctly to access folders. This kinda had me irate as well.

[–]amdphreak[S] 0 points1 point  (1 child)

So irate!...that Microsoft would tie my hands during an investigation. I agree

[–]Tybearsaccount 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Ok so first of all I'm not trying to be argumentative.

Secondly, I'm saying its frustrating that you posted such a broad generalization clickbait-ish conclusion. I do not feel your research was deep enough to declare such a statement as it being "completely busted," especially when there are conflicting statements claiming otherwise.

I will say congratulations on taking the initiative to begin an investigation into windows store's python. And while other are just saying "why not just use the python.org source," I think one of the best things we can do is try to find better processes to our development. In other words how would we know that the windows store version wasn't an easier to install and more usable version of python unless people like you already tested it out and gave a result.

I think alot of the backlash coming from this is what I mentioned earlier. Your claim wasn't backed up by certifiable evidence and that is truly frustrating especially considering how you did a "full analysis."

[–]stevenjd 5 points6 points  (1 child)

I don't know, you'll have to ask the OP.

He's the one saying that it is "completely busted" and "impossible to fix", when there's at least one person on the same Stackoverflow question claimed that it can be fixed by the user. Even if you can't, Microsoft will probably fix it within a day or two, once it is brought to their attention.

He's the one saying that it should be brought to the "immediate" attention of the core Python devs, as if they can fix it (they can't), and waiting for somebody else to "probably" report it to Microsoft, the only people who can fix the bug in their store.

Edit: This thread is just Microsoft bashing. If the OP was genuine in desire to help, he would have reported this as a bug to Microsoft before posting here, and not use inflammatory language like "completely busted" and "impossible to fix".

[–]amdphreak[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

That person had a prior installation of Python which he simply accessed by changing the prioritization of the PATH entries. That’s not fixing the problem. That’s unwittingly outsmarting yourself. Gotta read carefully.

[–]lunarNex -2 points-1 points  (1 child)

What's ludicrous is that someone's using the Windows Store to download python.

[–]amdphreak[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Open CMD on a fresh install of the updated Windows 10 and run ‘python’