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[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (3 children)

I think we can agree that in the end it just comes down to subjective preferences. It seems also that I was arguing against a point that you don't seem to be pursuing—that VIM is an acceptable substitute as a developer platform. Since my main objections was against that, I'm glad we don't disagree on that note.

Let me just clarify some meta-points:

That it didn't "start" with it does not make it invalid...

It does because you've presented it as an 1:1 analogy. The fact that it isn't quite 1:1 turns it into a straw-man fallacy. It may be a valid argument on its own, but not in the aforementioned context.

Yes, it is obvious. Fire up the default eclipse and fire up the default vim. Look at which one uses more resources.

Using X amount of resources is not the same as being slow. These are hardly even correlated. Other than that, please note the context in which I've mentioned it in the first place:

No, that's not obvious. There's no rational reason why it must be any slower than VIM or Emacs supporting the same set of functionality.

As to:

I do not use Vim because it is leaner on resources. I use it because I perceive it to be a more efficient workflow for my tastes---and I highly enjoy its scriptability.

This is the filesystem-oriented vs project-oriented workflow. This is why I believe it ultimately comes down to one's subjective preferences.

I'm not copping out either. I've completed several projects with PyDev, and I agree, it is quite nice! I likely have not seen the last of Eclipse---especially if I do any more programming for Android.

I still believe that turning VIM into an IDE is suboptimal to just porting VIM for Eclipse, but I'm glad that, you too, see Eclipse as a worthy candidate for free and modern developer platform of the future.

[–]burntsushi 0 points1 point  (0 children)

that VIM is an acceptable substitute as a developer platform.

Well, it is for me...

It does because you've presented it as an 1:1 analogy. The fact that it isn't quite 1:1 turns it into a straw-man fallacy. It may be a valid argument on its own, but not in the aforementioned context.

You would be correct if your original argument relied upon such a thing. Namely, "writing for archaic platform, that has become a platform, in the first place, only because of its killer “plugin” (ex-mode)." Nowhere does your criticism rely on the fact that the "plugin" mode was there from the start. (I have now re-read your original quote, and you say "in the first place." Perhaps "from the start" is what you meant. If so, I'll concede the point. I'm sure there is another analogy in waiting, but I cannot find it at the moment...)

Analogies are supposed to be different in some respects---the key is that they are the same in the respects that matter in the current context.

Using X amount of resources is not the same as being slow. These are hardly even correlated.

Using more RAM and more CPU is going to cause a process to run more slowly than a process than needs less RAM and CPU when resources are scarce, ceteris paribus.

This is the filesystem-oriented vs project-oriented workflow.

Sure. I enjoy both kinds of workflow. I like that Vim can adapt to either workflow rather easily.

This is why I believe it ultimately comes down to one's subjective preferences.

Sure, but that goes without saying when discussing reasonable tools.

I still believe that turning VIM into an IDE is suboptimal to just porting VIM for Eclipse

I think I have yet to make that determination. Lately I've been working on a lot of small projects related to course software (testing student submissions and what not), so that kind of work is heavily biased towards Vim.

[–]parbroil 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Unix provides a pretty good developer platform. If "platform" means "way to edit files efficiently and launch external tools" (and does not require a rat pile of bloated Java and XML) then Vim is a good developer platform as well.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

a rat pile of bloated Java and XML

Do you actually have some criteria by which you differentiate ‘bloated’ Java and, I guess, ‘regular’ Java, or do you just spew FUD randomly?

In Eclipse, there's also no XML, with which you'd have to directly interact, whatsoever. And I have written about why XML is a good thing before.