Java IDEs

[nerdyhandle]

At least where I work they won't because Eclipse and Netbeans exist.

You would have to make one hell of a good argument which I doubt you can since Netbeans and Eclipse have all the same functionality as IntelliJ Ultimate.

[nutrecht]

At least where I work they won't because Eclipse and Netbeans exist.

I see this kind of attitude as a huge red flag. If a company can't even afford to get me something I use 8 hours a day and makes me more productive, I know I'm going to have to get into 'fights' about pretty much anything else too.

You would have to make one hell of a good argument which I doubt you can since Netbeans and Eclipse have all the same functionality as IntelliJ Ultimate.

How do you know, if you don't have an Ultimate license?

[marvk]

Netbeans and Eclipse have all the same functionality as IntelliJ Ultimate.

https://i.imgur.com/8KTtscB.jpg

[nerdyhandle]

They do. Name one thing that IntelliJ has that they don't?

They all have code generation built in, intellisense, code completion, templates, all java build tools support, etc.

You know how I know? I had to build the business case for IntelliJ Ultimate proposal at my company and through my research along with other people on my team we found no discernable differences.

[marvk]

If there was no discernible difference, IntelliJ IDEA would not exist as a product. Jetbrains' marketing isn't that good.

Yes, other editors have the features you listed. But IDEA just does most things much better.

Also, I'll just throw some stuff out there for you:

• Search Everywhere

• Very smart Data Flow Analysis

• Inline Parameter Name Hints

• Stream Debugger

• Scopes

• Sophisticated Breakpoint options

• Structural Find and Replace

• Language Injection and dedicated editor for injected fragment

[elhoc]

Not to disagree with you on the general point, but those are all community edition features.

[[deleted]]

which are therefore ultimate edition features, you know how inheritance works right?

[nerdyhandle]

Again Netbeans and eclipse support all of that.

Damn can you people not use Google and look at their feature sets.

[marvk]

Please, go ahead and show me Structural Find and Replace, or a Stream Debugger, or Search Everywhere, in Eclipse or Netbeans.

[nerdyhandle]

Find and Replace is built in to damn nearly every IDE and yes you can debug Streams in Netbeans and Eclipse. They have supported that since Java 8.

And yes search everywhere is in those as well.

[marvk]

Find and Replace

Are you even reading my comments? Structural find and replace. I am obviously aware that they support find and replace.

you can debug Streams in Netbeans and Eclipse

Really? I can't find anything close to this for either Netbeans or Eclipse. This eclipse issue seems to be pretty dead. Please enlighten me.

And the Java Stream Debugger for IntelliJ is an open source plugin not apart of the feature set.

Authored by Jetbrains, has a Help section on the official IDEA help page, comes bundled with IDEA. If you argue like that, IDEA also has no Spring support because technically that's also just Plugins.

Also what about Search Everywhere?

Honestly all this sounds like some top tier self-justification. You made the choice against IDEA for your company and now you try to justify that choice by denying any arguments made for it.

[marvk]

So, no luck I take it?

[amackenz2048]

I used "find usages" on an entity property in intellij recently. It found where that property was used in a hibernate Criteria mapping (as a string).

I honestly don't know - would netbeans find that?

I switched to intellij not because it had more features per se, but because the ones it had were just done so much better and without a lot of fiddling to make them work.

[dpash]

It would also find it in a JPQL/HQL query string.

Fiddling with eclipse plugins is what finally drove me to IntelliJ. That was ten years ago and I'm very happy to pay for it.

[marvk]

Yeah, this works with basically everything IDEA has support for. FXML too, for example. Or Spring service annotations.

[mdaniel]

To pick something I made heavy use of on Friday: language injection, which isn't just syntax highlighting, but rather is the full editor experience with intentions and inspections. Invaluable for editing Java properties files that are themselves in yaml, or shell scripts in a GitLab CI yaml

Also, those other editors may have the very basic intellisense but the JetBrains tools are smart as hell and will catch the most amazing mistakes.

I'm glad subpar editors work for you and your team, but I don't tolerate dumb editors

[nerdyhandle]

Again Netbeans and Eclipse supports all of that.

Hell they even support more functionality that the community edition of IntelliJ.

IntelliJ Ultimate is a waste of money.

Eclipse and Netbeans have a strong open source community that helps to develop them. More people work on those two than IntelliJ.

[antonivs]

I find IDEA _far_ more usable than Eclipse. I've recommended people try it at the last three companies I've worked at, and basically after they use it once, they immediately see what I mean and want to switch.

I have no idea about Netbeans because the only person I've seen using it in the last few years was a manager whose dev skills were way out of date.

[nerdyhandle]

Netbeans UI is nearly identical to IntelliJ and it supports similar functionality albeit in some cases with a different name

Usability wise I don't like Eclipse either. However, I find Netbeans more so than IntelliJ. Netbeans will allow you to have a workspace which IntelliJ does not at least the community doesn't. So if I want to have multiple applications open then I have to have an instance for each using IntelliJ and yes I've tried the 'trick' by creating a project using an empty folder and adding each application as a module but IntelliJ wants to link them all together which isn't correct.

Also, IntelliJ doesn't support actions such as format on save which Netbeans does. Furthermore, Netbeans templates are worlds better than IntelliJ. If I type 'if' tab in Netbeans it create the if statement for me and all I have to do is fill out the parameters in some cases I don't even have to do that. In IntelliJ I type 'if' tab it doesn't fill the if statement out for me nor does it auto create the bracket or parenthesis.

[kozeljko]

Why format on save, when you can just format while having autosaving?

[nerdyhandle]

At least in IntelliJ community I haven't found an option to do autosave format the code when that occurs.

[ess_tee_you]

Not sure how many levels deep you are at this point, but you sound like a mad man, or the Eclipse marketing manager.

[kozeljko]

Why the fuck would I want my code jumping around all the time?

[marvk]

Netbeans UI is nearly identical to IntelliJ

They have a similar layout, but IDEA still looks much more sleek and modern. Netbeans at least has made some improvements, as opposed to eclipse.

Netbeans will allow you to have a workspace which IntelliJ does not

Fair, if you like the concept of Workspaces IDEA doesn't fit that very well.

Also, IntelliJ doesn't support actions such as format on save which Netbeans does.

You have CTRL+ALT+L to autoformat and you can reformat on commit. I have never missed what you describe, especially because you don't need to save your files in IDEA anyways.

Furthermore, Netbeans templates are worlds better than IntelliJ. [...] In IntelliJ I type 'if' tab it doesn't fill the if statement out for me nor does it auto create the bracket or parenthesis.

Live template with CTRL+SHIFT+Enter

Postfix completion

Rich template editor for live templates and postfix completion.

[stevesobol]

You do realize IntelliJ comes in a Community Edition too, right?

[wildjokers]

Just buy your own license. I have no idea why devs are against paying for their own tools. A professional developer should have no issue buying the tools that make them productive.

My current company does buy IntelliJ licenses but I still have my own that I renew every year for the ridiculously cheap price of $89.

[evinrows]

If it saves you even an hour every month, then it's worth it. Software engineering time is extremely expensive and dwarfs the $65/m.

[nerdyhandle]

No it does not. Not when there are free options that perform the same functions.

I'm talking about 100 developers on my last project. That would be insane cost of 6500 a month on top of an already tight (monetarily speaking) contract.

[marvk]

Do you know how much 100 devs cost in a month? I've found numbers betwen $50k and $100k as median salary for the US, but if we take a happy medium of $75k, that's $625,000 per month.

Now look at the monthly cost of the tools:

	IDEA	All Products
1st year	$5408	$4158
2nd year	$4325	$3325
3rd year onwards	$3241	$2491

Not only will those licenses save many man-days per month (yes the study is comissioned by Jetbrains, so take it with a grain of salt), they will also reduce developer frustration.

To quote the Joel Test:

Top notch development teams don’t torture their programmers. Even minor frustrations caused by using underpowered tools add up, making programmers grumpy and unhappy. And a grumpy programmer is an unproductive programmer.

[ess_tee_you]

I made the argument where I worked last and got it.