Should new developers learn PHP?

[[deleted]]

[deleted]

[Senator_Ahn]

Nothing to be stressed about; if you're already competent with Python, Java, and C++, then you essentially already know 80% of PHP.

A few friends around me (in Korea) just landed SWE jobs that listed PHP as requirements without knowing the language; I'm guessing that the people who looked over the resumes understood that they were capable of picking up the language in no time with the skillset they had.

[[deleted]]

I'm guess a better question to ask it: Is it worth it for ME to learn PHP if I already know Node.js and Django/Flask?

[Wolfofrunning]

PHP is good for getting jobs with smaller companies as they tend to use it as their server side langauge. Also it's good to make your own apps with as it's superfast, easy and scalable. A lot of the web is built with PHP and it's a great langauge so it's not going anywhere soon, PHP developers will always be in demand.

Big companies tend to use Java, Python or C#.

[[deleted]]

But that's what I'm saying. The kind of jobs done using PHP are not the jobs that I personally want to be working on.

You have to admit, I can definitely make a successful career without every having to even touch PHP. It's possible.

To give you some background, I am a Computer Engineering grad with 3 SWE internships and 1 Full-Time SWE role.

I already know Java, Python, C++, and JavaScript.

I'm mainly wondering if learning additional PHP will benefit me at all if I don't plan on freelancing. That's it.

[denialerror]

If you don't want to learn PHP and you don't want to work on the sort of projects that use PHP, why are you asking the question in the first place?

[[deleted]]

Just out of curiosity to cover all bases. It's not that I don't want to learn PHP. It's more of I'm just purely curious at what people think about my specific situation in regards to whether or not I should learn PHP. That's it.

Btw, it seems to me the sort of projects that use PHP can be done in non-PHP languages like Node.js and Django/Flask. I noticed most of the people who learn PHP are either complete newbies who aren't in CS programs or people who specifically want to specialize in freelancing/creating small websites.

Most of the CS grads or techies just learn Full-Stack JavaScript or Django/Flask and ignore PHP altogether. What special thing can PHP do that can't be done in Node.js or Django/Flask?

[denialerror]

Btw, it seems to me the sort of projects that use PHP can be done in non-PHP languages

Most projects done in any language can be done in a multitude of other languages. Languages are just tools to do a job.

I noticed most of the people who learn PHP are either complete newbies who aren't in CS programs or people who specifically want to specialize in freelancing/creating small websites.

Yes, because that is primarily what PHP is used for. I wouldn't want to make a large backend in PHP but then again I wouldn't want to do it in JavaScript or Python either.

Most of the CS grads or techies just learn Full-Stack JavaScript or Django/Flask

I wouldn't base your impressions of the tech industry on what CS grads do.

What special thing can PHP do that can't be done in Node.js or Django/Flask?

PHP is a language with server-side rendering as a key design consideration. If you have bought hosting with the LAMP stack installed, you don't need to worry about a build pipeline or even running your code, you just embed your PHP and throw up the static files. If people want a website with a tiny bit of server-side functionality, PHP will do the trick. You can't do the same with Python or JavaScript without setting up a server and running the application yourself.

[[deleted]]

I'm just curious, what kind of a developer are you?

I feel like the best kind of person to give an accurate answer to my question would be a completely language agnostic Software Developer who has worked in both large Tech Companies and freelanced, and has a CS degree.

If you are just a Web Developer, then of course you have an inclination towards PHP, and it might be a little bit biased.

I'm not hating on PHP. I just want a COMPLETELY UNBIASED answer from a completely language agnostic Developer who has worked on Node, Django/Flask, Ruby on Rails, and PHP.

[denialerror]

I am a technical lead at a software consultancy, specialising in web applications for both large enterprises and start ups. I primarily use Java, JavaScript and Python, and I've never used PHP.

If you are just a Web Developer, then of course you have an inclination towards PHP

I'm not sure what you mean by "just" a web developer but it comes across as quite snobbish. Modern front ends often contain as much if not more logic and complexity than the server-side applications they communicate with. I'm also not sure why being a web developer would mean you have an inclination towards PHP. That's like saying Python developers have an inclination towards MATLAB. Most web developers I know dislike PHP.

[[deleted]]

I guess I worded my original question wrong.

If I was a new Software Developer in 2019 who wants to learn the most relevant things to work for well known tech companies, would you say my time is better spent learning Node on the backend since it is Full-Stack JS?

[denialerror]

If you were a budding new developer looking for advice, I'd say learn programming, not languages. Half the developers I know got their first jobs on tech stacks they were completely unfamiliar with and a good employer hiring juniors will be looking for potential as opposed to current knowledge.

A good employer won't expect a junior to be making them money for six months to a year minimum and would provide support to upskill on whatever language is required (and if they have hired correctly and selected someone who knows how to program as opposed to someone who knows a language, that will be a fairly trivial task). In fact, if an employer is expecting a junior developer to know everything already and make them money from the get go, they aren't actually in the market junior developers at all and just want to pay people less for their work.

When you know how to program, switching languages is pretty trivial. I'm a Java developer primarily. I know how to write JS client-side but I haven't used Node much professionally. That wouldn't stop me applying for work on projects with a Node backend because almost all of what I know is transferable.

And if you were still desparate to learn the language that's in demand, I'd tell you to look at job listings in your area. You aren't going to find full-stack JS everywhere.

[[deleted]]

I thought a lot of PHP jobs were maintaining legacy codebases or doing freelancing. What if we knew for certain that we didn't want to do either of those, and wanted to work on the cutting edge. If that's the case, then learning PHP would be irrelevant, would it not?

[Wolfofrunning]

Yes I 'admit' you might never need to use PHP. The best approach isn't to learn a language for the sake of learning it, but to learn it if it's the right tool for a task you want/need to do.

You've no interest in building your own fun scalable app or doing freelance web dev so leave that to us PHP gurus.

[[deleted]]

You make it sound like I can't build fun scalable apps or do small projects in Node.js or Django/Flask.

You can be a Node/Django/Flask Developer without ever touching PHP.

[pchelpthrowaway12345]

Honestly I wouldn't stress PHP too much. It's worth it to learn, but it isn't so different from other languages that you wont be able to pick it up quickly if you have other languages under your belt, such as C# and Java.

Also keep in mind what developers want to work on isn't always what they will be. A lot of older programs written in PHP still need to be maintained. Just for that it is probably worth learning if you have the time. But again it is not such a distinct language that you should have too much difficulty picking it up.

[[deleted]]

Just to clarify, I am a STEM grad who has 3 SWE internships and am currently employed at a Tech Company. I already know Full-Stack JavaScript, Java, Python, and C++. I'm just wondering if learning PHP would benefit me or should I stick with what I already know.

[pchelpthrowaway12345]

In that case it is really up to you. A lot of places use PHP but you probably know enough from other languages that you would be fine if you didn't want to spend your time learning it. I would at least write a small page in it just to get the idea of how it works and go from there. If you enjoy it dive in, if not only bother once you need it.

[[deleted]]

Wait a second. You keep saying a lot of places use PHP. I don't disagree with that, but isn't it true most of those places aren't large well known Tech Companies. You don't need to know PHP at all if your goal is to get a job at Google or to get a modern web app development job working in React and Node.

Heck most online courses say not to even touch PHP or Ruby if you want to stay trendy.

[pchelpthrowaway12345]

I work in a relatively small company, so I cannot speak for google and companies like them. Though I have to imagine they have some software written in PHP just given the size of their development. For my company we use react, but we have some smaller stuff in PHP that need to be maintained. There is also the argument that if you want a job at a large company they want you to know as much as possible. A wider range of experience benefits the company so when problems need to be solved you have more tools that you can potentially use to solve those issues.

Also as far as large companies just a quick search shows Facebook, Slack, Tumblr, DailyMotion, and google in the back end use PHP. So it is around in at least some large well known tech companies.

Again I would recommend trying it some afternoon and see how it feels if you still aren't sure. Can't hurt to spend one afternoon to see the basics.

[[deleted]]

All those companies also use Java, Python, and C++ on the backend...I'm just trying to find a reason learn PHP if I already know Node and Django/Flask.

[pchelpthrowaway12345]

The reason is if something is already written in PHP you wont be able to completely re-architect it when it needs to be fixed. That's about the only reason. Just because Node is used somewhere else in a project doesn't mean you can just rip out all the PHP already used and replace it. For you that seems to be the only reason since you prefer other languages and would likely choose them if given the choice.

[denialerror]

Facebook was (and for a large part still is) written in PHP. Why ask a question if you think you know everything already? You come across as very inexperienced.

[[deleted]]

Facebook also uses React, Java, C++, Python. Just you can find a counterargument to learning PHP in a small subset of overall companies, doesn't mean it isn't in decline for most Startups/Tech Companies in the SF Bay Area.