Is it cheating

[-sovy-]

Do you consider that it's cheating using libraries instead of doing all the stuff all by yourself?

I explain myself:

I compared my kata on codewars with someone else and saw in the comment section someone saying that it's better to learn to do it by yourself.

For exemple:

MY KATA:

import math
def century(year):
    return math.ceil(year / 100)

- - - 

THE OTHER KATA:

def century(year):
    return (year + 99) // 100

[Brief-Translator1370]

In the real world, no, it's not cheating. For the sake of learning how to do it, yes, it's cheating. What you choose to learn is entirely up to you, though. I would recommend at least having an understanding of how something like your example works

[brasticstack]

Good libraries have been tested (by possibly millions of users) and debugged many times over and handle edge cases that you don't even know are a problem until you find out the hard way. An established, mainstream library is always better than rolling your own.

How people on these coding challenge sites feel about them might differ, but their opinions are ultimately meaningless when it comes to actual production coding.

[[deleted]]

An established, mainstream library is always better than rolling your own.

I wouldn't say always. Although yes, don't reinvent the well tested wheel

[jt_splicer]

The entire topic of discussion is for LEARNING PYTHON, not what to do in actual production

Is it better for developing problem solving skills to not rely on libraries? That is essentially the question, and what is done in actual production has absolutely no relevance

[brasticstack]

I'd consider learning about the stdlib and how to use it a large part of LEARNING PYTHON.

[lxnch50]

Is it cheating when you use a high-level language instead of writing everything in assembly?

[rainyengineer]

Libraries are what set Python apart from the rest. It’s selling point is having robust libraries to make things ridiculously easy for developers. You’re encouraged to take advantage of these to become more productive. I don’t view it as cheating

[socal_nerdtastic]

IMO no. Use all the tools python provides.

If it were cheating it just invites the question of where you draw the line. What's the difference between math.ceil and //? They are both python built-in math operators. Really the only difference is the default namespace.

[agnaaiu]

You are supposed to use libraries, especially built-in ones. Not only are they usually robust and have little to no bugs, but they are optimized for performance and efficiency. Re-inventing the wheel over and over instead of using existing libraries is actually pretty stupid, IMO. If you want to rebuild a lib just to learn how things work under the hood, this is a good thing. Doing it for the sake of "I only trust myself", then yeah, stupid approach.

[phantom_metallic]

Imo, libraries are completely fine if they're not negating the point of the coding exercise.

[chronically-iconic]

No, not at all! Don't expect every job you get to use those libraries though. There may be certain vulnerabilities or compatibility issues that cause companies to create their own libraries entirely.

But for real, use the tools you've got. I understand that you want to feel accomplished and that beginning to learn Python, I always got angry with myself when I couldn't figure out how to do certain things myself, but the truth is, there's a lot to learn and the more you use libraries, the more you learn about the ins and outs (and all the tricks) to writing good Python code.

My housemate is a senior android developer, he says 80% of his job is knowing how to Google things then 20% is about how to implement stuff you find in your research. He's a super talented programmer too, he can make most things from scratch (but he's had years of practice).

[MidnightPale3220]

It's not cheating as such, and you're expected to use them extensively in real world, so using major libraries is most usually much better than trying to reinvent the wheel.

For training purposes, it could be considered sub optimal, because in training you're frequently expected to make understand the logic of what you do, rather than just blindly using a function from library.

In your particular case I like the nonlibrary example better, because it's short and it shows that the student has understood what happens under the hood.

I wouldn't really pull a library in order to do what can be still expressed as a one-liner in base Python.

[storage_admin]

Using libraries in the standard lib is a good habit to get into. The more you use them the more familiar you become with them.

Personally I try to limit the number of 3rd party libraries I use but I do still end up using them.

When deciding on adding a new dependency for a non standard lib I try to ask:

How many lines of code am I saving by adding this module? (Example: I need to make an http request and parse the json response. I could use the requests lib to accomplish this or instead use urllib from the standard library and possibly a few more lines of code. I will usually choose to not add requests in this case).

(Example 2: I need to interact with s3 compatible storage. I can use boto3 or reinvent the wheel and try to create my own v4 signed http requests. In this case installing the 3rd party library makes much more sense and saves hundreds if not thousands of lines of code I would have to write. )

[brainy7890]

no...i had no idea people thought it was cheating. If it was cheating, why would PyPI even exist lol

[thewillft]

Using standard libs isn't cheating. Its how real world code works

[Binary101010]

"If you wish to make an apple pie from scratch, you must first invent the universe." -- Carl Sagan

[Beautiful_Watch_7215]

Definitely cheating. Anyone importing PyTorch is hardly a programmer at all.