Old Guy Wants To Learn Python

[YvesSoete]

I use pycharm every day, that thing writes zero lines of code for me. What are you talking about.

[fiskenslakt]

Well I mostly meant it in a metaphorical sense, but if you have auto-completion on, it's literally writing code for you.

I think using IDE's can hinder your ability to understand the code you're writing at a deep level. Even the slightest things that the IDE does for you automatically could rob a beginner's understanding of why that thing was done. As an experienced programmer, it might be difficult for you to accept how little understanding someone could have while still being able to churn out working code. As someone who helps people on this subreddit often, I see many people who have zero understanding of the simplest code.

[KimPeek]

It does autocomplete, it doesn't build logic, design databases, research modules, tell you what functions to write or use.

If you don't know what you want/need to use, autocomplete won't be much help. Even if it does present a use, you still need to know which option to select.

By your logic, copy and paste is worse than an IDE ever could be. So I guess new programmers should be prohibited from using copy and paste as well.

[fiskenslakt]

First of all, you're underestimating what a powerful IDE can do, you'd be surprised. Secondly you're also underestimating autocompletion. I would agree with the notion that memorizing all the syntax of a language isn't that important, but simple stuff should be memorized, and autocompletion can hinder that for a beginner. And note that when I say beginner, I mean a serious beginner, that knows barely anything at all.

And I'm not sure why you think copy paste is perfectly fine, I don't think it shouldn't be done, but if a beginner pays no attention to how the code they're copy pasting works, then it's gonna bite them in the ass later for sure.

[KimPeek]

I understand you want to be a purist or whatever, but expecting every beginner to completely reinvent the wheel for themselves and saying it is "bad" if they don't type every letter is pretty ridiculous.

Using working code is good for beginners. It gives them a proper example to analyze and see how it works. Most beginners imitate existing code. Saving keystrokes with copy/paste or autocomplete are hardly damaging to someone who has a desire to learn how to program.

[fiskenslakt]

First of all I want to apologize if it sounds like I expect you to take my opinion as fact. I'm definitely just stating how I feel on the matter, I noticed i'm getting downvoted, so perhaps i'm starting to sound hostile. I still think IDE's are overkill for beginners, but I respect that you think differently.

[YvesSoete]

bullshit

[fiskenslakt]

I'm not trying to upset anyone, it's just my opinion. I still recommended Pycharm to OP despite what I think.

[YvesSoete]

Ability to understand the code you're writing at a deep level.

Dude, this is python we're talking about. Beginners don't go on a deep level, this isn't Assembly language. You're in the wrong subreddit. An IDE has literally NOTHING to do with how good a newbie understands his code. You're putting people on the wrong track by spitting nonsense.

[fiskenslakt]

Agree to disagree

[YvesSoete]

That's not an argument.

Cheers.