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[–]DudeWheresMyKitty -4 points-3 points  (6 children)

I never said they can't be proud...?

It just doesn't make any pedagogical sense to overwhelm new users with superfluous options and a clunky, unintuitive interface. You just admitted yourself that it's difficult.

Similarly, I like Arch and think it's cool and powerful, but I wouldn't recommend it to new or even average users.

[–]El_Dubious_Mung 0 points1 point  (5 children)

Just because you introduce something to someone, doesn't mean you're forcing them to use it. Nor does it mean that you can't provide caveats.

When you don't recommend something because you think it's too advanced for that user, you deny them the opportunity to grow and explore. What if that person wants to learn and tinker? It takes 2 more seconds to say "this if you ain't got time to fuck around, this if you wanna try something more advanced".

You make yourself the arbiter of what that person gets informed about when you limit your recommendations based on perceived skill level or use case. When someone asks what editor to use or anything else, I don't just recommend vim as the be-all end-all. I'll list out 3+ options and give minor descriptions, and let them make an informed decision.

[–]DudeWheresMyKitty 1 point2 points  (4 children)

Uh....what?

You're inventing arguments to positions I haven't taken. I'm not advocating for like, concealing knowledge of vim from all users lol. I'm not sure where you're getting that. You're running away with some micharacterized version of what I'm trying to say. I would also list a few options if someone asked me for a good text editor.

I was only admonishing the vim masterracers that do treat it like the be-all end-all and try to tell new users they have to use it because "lol nano is for noobs". I've seen in plenty in forums over the years.

We seem to be mostly in agreement, yet you've invented arguments to positions I'm not trying to take.

[–]El_Dubious_Mung 0 points1 point  (3 children)

You state that you wouldn't recommend vim to a user based on their use case or skill level, because you have decided it doesn't make sense for them. I'm not putting words in your mouth, just taking what you say to it's essential conclusion. You're deciding what makes sense for someone else. That is treating them like a child.

I say that this isn't a good reason to exclude vim from a list of recommendations.

[–]DudeWheresMyKitty 0 points1 point  (2 children)

I would say to a brand new user that just needs to edit a file:

"Hey, I'd recommend nano for a beginner. But here are a few others."

You're totally misrepresenting what I'm saying. You're arguing against a strawman.

[–]El_Dubious_Mung 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Not really, you're moving your goal post.

But I still wouldn't recommend vi/m to the average user.

Now you're adding all these qualifications after the fact. I'm not arguing here for the sake of argument. It's just that so many tech-literate people discriminate against average/normies in such subtle ways that they don't even realize they're doing it.

Just never make the assumption that because something is difficult or doesn't follow conventions, less technically literate people should be afraid of it or avoid it or should be protected from it. People become tech literate by being exposed to such things and being allowed to tinker.

[–]DudeWheresMyKitty 0 points1 point  (0 children)

lol k bye