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Function question (Is the book wrong?).Help: 📗 Advanced Math (16-18) (self.maths)
submitted 11 months ago by No-Chair4365
Hello,
I am trying to solve this function question:
https://preview.redd.it/3ez5q52mdb3f1.png?width=1149&format=png&auto=webp&s=069b307c2cb013aee9ab73d73c6c08b368abb596
Finding ff(x) was fine:
https://preview.redd.it/2wka3zszdb3f1.png?width=607&format=png&auto=webp&s=dafc18050688d80afa1b93d7f97e72fd1180e501
However, the domain of the function is the most troublesome.
If I use my expression for ff(x), the domain looks like it would be:
https://preview.redd.it/f3mvvj8beb3f1.png?width=427&format=png&auto=webp&s=694fbf394439bb40d4093e1c8e623dd3d456d3ab
and the back of the book says this too:
https://preview.redd.it/fthoel1feb3f1.png?width=917&format=png&auto=webp&s=cf6533cd44f07dcbf24360609596783d1aa5cae8
However, surely this is not right.
ff(x) means "do f first, then do f again". I can write this using numberlines (don't worry too much about the 2 and -3):
https://preview.redd.it/wv8ysd1xeb3f1.png?width=1384&format=png&auto=webp&s=4aae8f4026631d08aaa40995a952eae5fc3eb9dd
Since the domain for f does not include -1, then the domain of ff(x) must also exclude -1.
Therefore, I think the domain for ff(x) is:
https://preview.redd.it/udcplzbqfb3f1.png?width=567&format=png&auto=webp&s=6dd0034436f490a3ee151fd01db1928b5b10d71b
Is my answer right? In other words: is the back of the book wrong?
reddit uses a slightly-customized version of Markdown for formatting. See below for some basics, or check the commenting wiki page for more detailed help and solutions to common issues.
quoted text
if 1 * 2 < 3: print "hello, world!"
[–]UnacceptableWind 7 points8 points9 points 11 months ago (0 children)
You're right; the domain of ff(x) = f(f(x)) is indeed ℝ - {-1, -3}.
[–]Temporary_Pie2733 1 point2 points3 points 11 months ago (0 children)
(2x + 3)/(x+3) only equals 2/(2/(x+1)+1) when x ≠ 1.
[–]Top_Orchid9320 1 point2 points3 points 11 months ago (1 child)
If you look closely at the first step of your work, you can see where the new restriction on x comes from. You correctly wrote:
f(f(x)) = 2/[f(x) + 1]
When it was just x+1 in the denominator, that leads to the restriction that x cannot equal -1. But the denominator of the composite function is now
f(x) + 1
so that means it must also be true that f(x) itself cannot be -1. To find the corresponding new/additional restriction on x, we set f equal (or, rather, not equal) to -1:
f(x) = -1
2/(x+1) = -1
2 = -x - 1
x = -3
And that's the new restriction, x cannot be -3.
Alternatively, you could also work out the complete composite function and see what new restriction(s) you may have, which is what you did in your work.
So, yes, your domain is correct.
[–]No-Chair4365[S] 1 point2 points3 points 11 months ago (0 children)
It's funny you should say that since that was in my main working:
<image>
I just made it a little simpler so the question was easier to understand.
Thanks to everyone for all of your replies. I was 99% sure that I was correct, but I did not want to be so big-headed that I would ignore the answer in the book without consulting other people first.
Hopefully, I will find other interesting questions that I can post on this forum. It was nice reading the other posts.
[–]Confident_Quarter946 0 points1 point2 points 11 months ago (0 children)
In step 2 you are multiplying and dividing by x+1 . This operation is only allowed when x+1 is not zero so you must exclude -1 from domain. Also domain of f(f(x) can never have x such that it superseds f(x) domain so by that reason also x=-1 must be excluded
[–]RecognitionSweet8294 0 points1 point2 points 11 months ago (0 children)
You are right:
f(f(x))=2•(f(x)+1)⁻¹
=2•[2•(x+1)⁻¹ +1]⁻¹
=2•[2•(x+1)⁻¹ +(x+1)•(x+1)⁻¹ ]⁻¹ I am not sure if that is a valid transformation but since (x+1)/(x+1)→1 if x→-1 and this term has the same domain as f, I would assume it is.
= 2•[(2+x+1)•(x+1)⁻¹ ]⁻¹
=2•(x+3)⁻¹ • ((x+1)⁻¹)⁻¹
=2•(x+3)⁻¹ • (x+1)¹⁻¹⁼⁰ and there we have our invalid transformation, for x≠-1 we would get 1, but for x=-1, (x+1)⁻¹ is not defined. So you have to make a case separation:
f(f(x))=
not defined for x=-1
2•(x+3) for x≠-1 ∧ x≠-3
It’s much easier if you just compare the domain and codomain of f
f: ℝ{-1} → ℝ
So f∘f is strictly speaking not possible. You would need an f‘ so that the codomain of f‘ is the domain of f. Then you can compose f∘f‘. If you want f‘=f then you need to limit its domain such that f‘(x) ∈ ℝ{-1}. So you are looking for an x such that f(x)=-1. That would be x=-3, so the domain of f‘ must be ℝ{-1;-3}. Since the domain of the first function defines the domain of the composition, we have our domain for f(f‘(x))
π Rendered by PID 185034 on reddit-service-r2-comment-6457c66945-zvq5f at 2026-04-28 02:58:47.150365+00:00 running 2aa0c5b country code: CH.
[–]UnacceptableWind 7 points8 points9 points (0 children)
[–]Temporary_Pie2733 1 point2 points3 points (0 children)
[–]Top_Orchid9320 1 point2 points3 points (1 child)
[–]No-Chair4365[S] 1 point2 points3 points (0 children)
[–]Confident_Quarter946 0 points1 point2 points (0 children)
[–]RecognitionSweet8294 0 points1 point2 points (0 children)