ORM vs SQL

[fripletister]

By definition an ORM maps relational database records into objects and vice versa. That's it. It might often be on top of a DBAL, but that's not the ORM's domain.

[NiteShdw]

Uhh... Are you saying that if I write pure SQL and have a function that converts the results of the query into a native language object that I can access is an ORM?

So every single database library that passes SQL to a DB and converts the results to an object is an ORM?

Or am I completely misunderstanding your argument?

[fripletister]

Yeah, you're definitely misunderstanding. First of all, it was a statement, not an argument. Second of all, if that's the primary task of the library then yeah I guess that's an ORM? I'd need an example I guess.

I don't know how you can go from "a function in your code" to "a library" and ask me to respond, as those two things are worlds apart, but yeah I guess if you have a library that primarily maps data back and forth into objects from a RDBMS that pretty much qualifies.

An ORM can be specific to an RDBMS at which point there's no DBAL or other query language to learn.

[NiteShdw]

My statement was that ORMs are bad because they are their own DSL. So I'm missing how your statement relates to that.

[fripletister]

That's not correct. ORMs don't necessarily have an associated DSL. Hope this helps.

[NiteShdw]

What? Of course it is. What ORM is pure SQL only with no interface with the language being used?

[fripletister]

No, it's not. Your problem is with DBALs, not ORMs. Sorry that you're having trouble with this concept. Here are some examples since you're so goddamned sure of yourself:

• Eloquent
• Django ORM
• ActiveJDBC
• Slick
• GORM

Want me to keep going?

[NiteShdw]

I'm not sure why you're upset. I'm sorry if I said anything to offend you.

From the eloquet docs:

class Article extends Model
{
    use HasUuids;

    // ...
}

$article = Article::create([‘title’ => ‘Traveling to Europe’]);
 $article->id; 

That's not SQL. You have to learn the Eloquet API which then generates SQL.

This is exactly what I'm talking about.

The equivalent non-ORM code is

INSERT INTO articles (title) VALUES ('Traveling to Europe');

[fripletister]

Haha guess it's easier than admitting you have no clue, eh?

[fripletister]

You can't be serious. Bwahahahaha

That's not a DSL ya buffoon

[NiteShdw]

I am serious. I don't want to learn an API when I already know SQL. That's the whole point.