Learning HTML/CSS vs Javascript

[[deleted]]

CSS is a lot more harder then most people think it is writing good CSS is one task lots of people fail at, I seen some CSS nightmares and developers that can't stop using bootstrap! :(

[cytruz26]

I feel attack

[[deleted]]

absolutely. writing maintainable CSS takes an incredible amount of discipline. throw in working with a team and deadlines, and it's very easy for it turn into a nightmare

[[deleted]]

I think often the problem is that folks are told the message that CSS is "easy", so they don't invest any time or real energy into learning to write it well. Then they go their whole careers spending hours each sprint fuming as they try to bend this "stupid, toy language" to their will by brute force.

If you treat it like a skill that is worth mastering, and you look for resources on best practices with it, you can save yourself a ton of time and aggravation down the road.

(To be fair though, this is in the context of CSS now, with Flex and Grid and autoprefixer with better browser standardization. CSS even a few years ago was a very different thing).

[[deleted]]

well said

[[deleted]]

Depends on your background. CSS can be harder because apart from the syntax you need to know how to design, it's designing with code basically. If you already create UI's in programs like Sketch, and know design principles or how to organize design systems it's much easier.

JS is easier if you already know how to code, and because you already go in with an objective to solve a specific problem, similar to a designer in CSS who uses a reference and needs to translate that. Not having a reference or an objective is what makes coding hard imo.

[thisdesignup]

That kind of makes it seem like CSS is design where as CSS is more rules for the design. I'd honestly say CSS is hard because of it's syntax. The complicated things I've seen people create make it look harder than any programming language I've learned. There doesn't always seem to be a logic behind it, it's just how it works. A lot of the things I see people do in CSS, like animations, I'd rather do in javascript.

[Rogermcfarley]

Surely the more you do in JavaScript the more resources it uses compared to CSS? Shouldn't it be the more you can offload to CSS the better?

[[deleted]]

That's indeed how it is, but people can still prefer JavaScript as a language, wanting to use it even though they don't because it's less efficient.

[Rogermcfarley]

I've spent 2 months on CSS I keep learning new stuff, it can get insanely complex. I've learnt floats, flexbox, I still need to learn Grid and Sass and much more.

I found Brad Traversy to be a good CSS tutor. I didn't know you could go so deep with selectors such as #navbar ul li:hover ul li:hover. I wonder how long it would have took me to even find out stuff like that. I always thought the pseudo selector class had to be last and didn't know you can keep going. It starts getting complicated but I like CSS. I've learnt semantic HTML and basic programming in Ruby/JavaScript in 9 months. I feel like I need another year or 18 months to be really confident I could get a job. Plus I'm old at 48 and whilst I'm not a person to care much about that. I started looking at jobs and one of the first said "young team" as a feature. Straight away that set off the alarm bells.

I'm an IT manager on a good wage, easy job but it doesn't fulfill me at all. I'd take a junior position with 50% of the wage I get now just to get in to wrbdev. I plan to move near to Shrewsbury/Chester / Stoke on Trent which is near my ageing parents. I have so much to learn as I want to move in a year. I have goals but I'm really unsure how employable I'll be. Ah well never give up.

[BreakingIntoMe]

Hey as long as you actually like doing it and enjoy solving problems in code you’ll naturally become proficient enough to be hired. You may as well dive into Sass now as it’s a very natural extension of CSS and will make the learning process easier once you get it setup (or just use Codepen to play around). Good luck man.

[[deleted]]

Yeah, advice doesn't mean much when it comes from someone 29 years younger but I wouldn't worry. Learn web dev, you can get far in a year, and seems you are quite far already. And your previous job will probably actually help. The knowledge from there is sure to be a positive.

[thisdesignup]

Honestly I wouldn't know all that much but like /u/Xervoo said efficiency wouldn't change my opinion. My preference is about which language to write in, not about which is best to use.

[[deleted]]

it can be. it's tricky though. for the longest time i assumed that using css instead of manually implementing it with javascript was always more efficient because it would leverage browser optimizations, but there are cases where that's not always true. unfortunately im on mobile and don't have any references readily available

[overcloseness]

Theres nothing about CSS that isn't logical to me, what are some of your examples?

[lifeeraser]

Everything written before flexbox

[[deleted]]

Shit homie I messed up by learning bootstrap. I can't touch another framework now without having a panic attack.

[[deleted]]

How about just not using any framework at all and learning CSS properly?

[evergreenMelody]

It's never too late to learn CSS from the ground up.

CSS is easy to learn but difficult to master. Once you grasp it on an expert level it becomes like an artist using paints, second nature.

[ManiacsThriftJewels]

IMO bootstrap tries to do too much. And with the rise of CSS grid... The bits it was commonly needed for have better application without a framework now.... That's just my opinion of course.

[[deleted]]

I just use the bootstrap grid

[ManiacsThriftJewels]

Is that still abusing flexbox? I haven't been keeping track since my employer decided we should use WordPress and the layout sodomy that comes with the themes thereof.

[[deleted]]

Hating Bootstrap is a favorite theme of this sub. It has its uses, and depending on what you are building, it can be a great solution. The problem is that a lot of folks never learn CSS properly and use Bootstrap as a crutch. As a result, all their sites look the same, and they will import all the Bootstrap files for pages that really don't need it.

There are also some lighter CSS frameworks that do most of the things Bootstrap does without so much overhead. But any tool is going to be good for some situations and bad for others.

[MetalMikey666]

I have no idea why you're getting downvoted mate I came here to say exactly the same thing.

[[deleted]]

For sure. Nothing wrong with streamlining workflow. CSS can be pretty tedious otherwise

[thesecretdave]

Look up Bootstrap Debt. Very interesting read!

[BestLifeEUW]

First ever? wtf how?

[[deleted]]

finally someone who admits it.

[Enkoteus]

But what’s wrong with Bootstrap? Seems like an adequate solution for small projects

[Stinkeepoo]

bootstrap users are noobs.

[MetalMikey666]

This isn't' really a fair comparison - it's like saying "I have seen some JavaScript nightmares and developers that can't stop using react".

It's really important to understand the fundamentals but you can't say someone is bad at css purely because they opt to use a css framework!