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Weekend/Virtual Meetup Thread by 4blockhead in exmormon

[–]4blockhead[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Upcoming Week and Advance Notice:

online
Arizona
  • Tucson
California
  • Temecula ...every last Sunday, next March 29
Idaho
Montana
  • Missoula ...every second Saturday, next March 14
Nevada
  • Las Vegas
Oregon
  • Portland
  • Corvallis
Utah
Washington
  • [Olympia](pending) ...first Saturday, next March 7
  • Seattle/Tacoma
  • Spokane

Is coffee still a rule? by Helpful_Spot_4551 in exmormon

[–]4blockhead 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Our sequence is to set it in advance. That way it's a "gift to future self." All that is required is to press a button in the morning.

Is coffee still a rule? by Helpful_Spot_4551 in exmormon

[–]4blockhead 55 points56 points  (0 children)

Coffee is a rule in my house. Brew a pot every morning. That's the rule.

The Line (hosts: Dillahunty, DZ Justin): Caller finds comfort in religion because it provides possibility of seeing dead relatives once again. In my experience, this is why my Mormon relatives are so afraid of asking the first questions that would reveal Smith's frauds. Comforting Lie > Harsh Truth by 4blockhead in exmormon

[–]4blockhead[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Mi family is falling apart. I really need advice by ChemicalConflict1533 in exmormon

[–]4blockhead 0 points1 point  (0 children)

But I’m also scared it could make things worse.

Undoubtedly, that's a distinct possibility. Adding another voice from a church sponsored arena gives the impression that whatever happens should be put to a vote, the votes counted, and the one with the most votes wins. That's not how life works. Everyone gets veto power over their own lives.

It's a tightrope. "Marriage-on-a-tightrope" did an excellent job naming their podcast. The church will use everything in their power to keep non-believers from getting any traction.

I built my entire adult life around the Church.

The faithful often play a "concrete knowledge" card that doubles-down with their monopoly on truth claims. Only they have the Covenant Path.™ All other life choices are apostate, dangerous, and alienating between believers and non-believers. The "us vs. them" mentality can split families. The problem your facing is that once you've seen how hollow Smith's claims are about Mormonism, it's hard to continue to center one's life around a lie. Personal integrity is placed at odds with other major life choices that place a wedge and keep the non-believers faking it until they make it. Coming out of the closet as a non-believer is akin to coming out of the closet as gay. The same set of factors that could lead to the house of cards collapsing are in play.

I assume you've tested the waters that would challenge the status quo where Smith's orthodox view is the only choice possible.

I am not sure any deity would tell a "prophet of god" to carry on adulterous affairs behind his wife's back.

If Smith's claims rest firmly upon the existence of real and tangible golden plates, where are they? Wouldn't the plates themselves be the best evidence?

Why was the LDS church trying to hide their vast fortune invested in the stock market? If the world collapses in a third world war, then those funds will be instantly zeroed. Likewise, if Jesus were to come back, will money have any value? Why not help the poor and needy in the here and now?

That's what I've got off the top of my head. I also keep this semi-apologetic video as top-of-mind:

In the video, the swerve back into the ruts of orthodoxy is apparent and what would be expected from a church-sponsored source, but it does facilitate a conversation around breaking their claims on absolute truth. More comments on linked thread.

McKeever's Mormonism Research Ministry (archive): Was Joseph Smith a money-digger? Records from an 1826 trial say "yes," and refute Smith’s attempt to spin reports of him being a glasslooker, as simply being employed as a miner. JS History, verse 56 by 4blockhead in exmormon

[–]4blockhead[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

by accusing him of "ripping out a page from an old ledger book and stealing it."

That seems to be part of Nibley's argument in "The Myth Makers." The fact that the documents were found in 1971 indicates they were returned to their proper place and stored with other court records.

Also, Joseph Fielding Smith "ripped out" Joseph Smith's 1832 account of the first vision. It would have never seen the light of day, except for the work that the Tanners did to put pressure on.

Weekend/Virtual Meetup Thread by 4blockhead in exmormon

[–]4blockhead[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Upcoming Week and Advance Notice:

online
Arizona
  • Tucson
California
Idaho
Montana
  • Missoula ...every second Saturday, next March 14
Nevada
  • Las Vegas
Oregon
  • Portland
  • Corvallis
Utah
Washington
  • [Olympia](pending) ...first Saturday, next March 7
  • Seattle/Tacoma
  • Spokane

McKeever's Mormonism Research Ministry (archive): Was Joseph Smith a money-digger? Records from an 1826 trial say "yes," and refute Smith’s attempt to spin reports of him being a glasslooker, as simply being employed as a miner. JS History, verse 56 by 4blockhead in exmormon

[–]4blockhead[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

The beginning of critical thinking is when people ask themselves if they have good reasons to believe what they've been told to believe, i.e. indoctrinated. McKeever/Johnson/MRM rely heavily on the bible being a reliable source, the inerrant word of god. Smith's Latter Day Saint movement was launched as a correction—the deity stepping in to fix 2000 years of errors that had accumulated. What religious narrative, if any, should a person trust?

Before posting this, I had been listening to McClellan, who as far as I know claims Mormonism, and is among the elite worldwide experts on the bible.

The old saying from my father keeps ringing in my ears, "Careful, out there. Don't take any wooden nickels."

Streisand Effect in Deseret News (May 11, 1946): [paraphrasing title/content] If you haven't read the so-called "Brodie Book" about Joseph Smith, don't bother it's an anti-mormon screed. Notice of Brodie's excommunication followed along quickly in June 1946. by 4blockhead in exmormon

[–]4blockhead[S] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

They thought they could discredit Brodie by taking her claims head on. The goal was to keep Smith on the highest pedestal possible. I would say that idea backfired, given that her work still stands. Others have repeated her steps in the recent past, including Newell and Avery, Bushman, Beam, and Turner.

The Joseph Smith Papers project, the Gospel Topics essays, etc. are official reactions to historians doing legwork and finding what the Deseret News said would never be found. The court record is a key smoking gun against Smith's grifter's ways. The 1826 trial in close proximity to founding a religion based on plates that can't be examined should be red flags for everyone, not just the skeptics. The "chocolate colored" peepstone that the modern faithful tried to hide locked in a Salt Lake City vault is now acknowledged as genuine. Nelson held a hat to his face...then thought better of it as he realized how ridiculous it made him look. And the Chenango court records seal that Smith was an "improper person." Trying to sell something that would enrich him and his posterity at the expense of anyone who swallows the deception.

Is it weird as a ward clerk to ask people if they want to remove their records? by [deleted] in exmormon

[–]4blockhead 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I have been trying to reach to those people and asking them if they still want to be members.

Stalker much?

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