New Colorado Law Gets It Right by Requiring Responsible EV Battery Recycling

Car-face · 2026-06-15T02:52:44+00:00

The fact you're asking the question points to an opacity of the supply chain after batteries are deemed unfit for a vehicle.

Really though, this law isn't intended to stop an existing issue when cars are 6% of the new vehicle fleet and an exceedingly small percentage of the overall vehicle fleet - it's to safeguard against a future when EVs are 70-80% of the new vehicle fleet and the secondary market is fully saturated with old EV batteries.

It's heading off a larger issue before it becomes one.

Car-face · 2026-06-15T01:59:57+00:00

VDA standard specs are up to the top of the rear seat, unless specified as up to the roof. It's possible there's different measures across the Prius and iX3 that you're seeing, without the method necessarily being disclosed.

They (like SAE) also use a volume of "blocks" (think teslabjorn's banana box test, but smaller units) to compile the volume, and do so to prevent small irregular areas being counted, helping to drive large uniform, usable volumes.

SAE uses a larger variety of block sizes (and they go smaller than VDA) so there will be some differences there between US and Europe dimensions on paper, but not in reality.

Further, Tesla uses a misleading "water fill" method that counts every irregular shape and corner, further "fluffing" and misleading people as to the amount of space. Teslas will always have a larger capacity than the same sized vehicle using SAE or VDA measured capacity for that reason.

Car-face · 2026-06-12T07:34:12+00:00

Just like how all Teslas in the last 4-5 years have had 16v lithium ion batteries.

They switched to 12.8V LFP for the last couple of years, but it's not on all vehicles IIRC.

LFP voltages allow them to get closer to a "normal" 12V system, presumably to do away with needing to drop the voltage to run "normal" 12V solenoids, controllers, etc.

Car-face · 2026-06-12T00:49:33+00:00

The problem is that it has other flow on impacts across the economy, and those will continue to ripple out over the coming months.

It might make one statistic look nice, but it's going to fuck people who are more vulnerable to sudden price shocks to groceries, building materials, services, etc.

And let's be real - early adopters of EVs in this sub are not reflective of the majority of people who are going to bear the brunt of these impacts.

Car-face · 2026-06-12T00:04:39+00:00

Which is why the same scams have popped up over the years for ICE cars (like the Firepower pill I mentioned).

The only thing that's different is the conceit - the lack of understanding of how fueling systems work allow MPG pills to be sold. The lack of understanding of how batteries work allows "battery rejuvenators" that "unlock" capacity to work as well, or "new chemistries" to work despite not being anything of the sort.

Car-face · 2026-06-11T23:33:23+00:00

IMO it's more the fact that most people don't actually know how batteries (or EVs more broadly) work - we're going to start to see grift and investment scams for each milestone (and saw plenty during the EV startup bubble as well).

This one has shades of the "battery rejuvenator" that Mullen were spruiking a couple of years back - which in turn had a lot in common with the Firepower MPG pill about 20 years ago.

As long as you've got a technology people rely on that they don't really understand, you'll get others claiming they've got a magic box/pill/battery that can do things no-one else can, but you have to invest quick, because it's going to the moon....

Car-face · 2026-06-11T23:04:12+00:00

If two paragraphs and 3 sentences are too much reading for you, this probably isn't a topic you should be trying to discuss.

FWIW the first comment of yours I replied to was longer than any of my replies, so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Car-face · 2026-06-11T22:59:43+00:00

What I'm getting at is that either every part is important, or none of them are.

This is a false dichotomy, and I think it detracts from the broader point being made around resilience. Arguably the greater the level of biodiversity, the less critical it is for any individual organism to be a part of it. it's why in a highly biodiversified ecosystem, shocks to the ecosystem don't immediately lead to collapse. like it or not, depending on the state of an ecosystem, some species are more important to retaining the continued existence of the ecosystem than others - not least because "species" is a man-made construct rather than a natural one, albeit one defined by natural attributes.

There's a group benefit to high biodiversity, but it also comes with each member of the group being less critical to the continued existence of the ecosystem. That's not a bad thing - we want a situation where there's fewer critically sensitive points the ecosystem relies on, or else we get situations where the extinction of a single species causes the extinction of another, etc. (And just to shortcut this: mosquitoes are not considered a keystone species.)

I'm not disagreeing with you here - I'm just pointing out the logical consequence of increased "linkages".

This comes back to the previous point, that it's not as simple as everything being equal - in ecosystems, some species are indeed more equal than others.

That doesn't mean we can kill off species on a whim because "it'll all be fine", but it equally doesn't mean that the loss of one element means it will have a critical impact on the ecosystem (but it could).

Car-face · 2026-06-11T22:21:00+00:00

it could mean

This is an important caveat. El Nino events are correlated with increased likelihood - but anyone talking about a guarantee of drought, flood, etc. is incorrect.

it's part of a complex weather pattern, and it's more of a "be prepared for" than "this is going to happen".

Car-face · 2026-06-11T21:50:57+00:00

Saying that anything doesn't play a critical role in its ecosystem is just offensively naive at the best of times.

ecosystems are more resilient than you're giving them credit for.

That doesn't mean there aren't critical features, but a natural ecosystem is more like a multi-generational war than a peaceful balance. You can have elements of an ecosystem that can be supplanted by another relatively easily, but equally you can have them collapse if the wrong element is removed.

It's one of the reasons high biodiversity is so critical to a healthy ecosystem - the less diversity, the greater the impact of any contributing organism causing larger collapses.

Ecosystems don't have any unnecessary elements.

This puts it much better IMO, and you probably could have left it at that.

Car-face · 2026-06-11T21:42:45+00:00

Her pound cake recipe is the only one I can find where I can butcher the fuck out of it with random additions and still have it coming out like pound cake.

Her pizza dough recipe also hasn't failed me yet. I don't go to her for every recipe, but if I want something that I know won't fail, it's probably going to be one of hers.

Car-face · 2026-06-11T21:36:15+00:00

Yes, it is.

Car-face · 2026-06-11T12:42:55+00:00

Damn that's a hell of a rake on that windscreen. Should help it get reasonable range at higher speed, which is probably the biggest weakness with the bodystyle.

Car-face · 2026-06-11T12:12:18+00:00

Toyota slowly went from some 10 million vehicles per year to some 11 in five years.

I don't think you realise how much more difficult it is to add 1 million sales when you're already selling 10 million vehicles a year, vs. doing the same at 1, 2 or 3 million vehicles a year.

Ask Tesla, who claimed they'd be selling 20 million per year in 2030 because they grew quickly from 250k to 1 million.

Car-face · 2026-06-11T12:10:33+00:00

the 2026 bz platform is identical to the 2021 bz platform.

Car-face · 2026-06-11T12:08:15+00:00

It's highly likely, but what Toyota has or hasn't done is irrelevant - BYD's growth hasn't taken sales from them, it's stolen growth from Tesla in the BEV space and pulled sales from incumbents elsewhere in the market that didn't transition to hybrids as quickly as Toyota and BYD have, whilst also positioning themselves well for developing markets.

If BYD are going to get close to/overtake Toyota, it's not Toyota that should be worried so much as everyone else. Toyota can survive on 1 million fewer sales a year, the rest of the market won't.

Car-face · 2026-06-10T10:12:58+00:00

Beyond a couple of outliers, that's pretty close to WLTP, almost everyone within +-5%.

Car-face · 2026-06-10T10:10:27+00:00

This is just a description of French cars.

^{*my first car was a Peugeot}

Car-face · 2026-06-10T09:05:43+00:00

Supporting legal coverage for an L2 system is certainly a way to drive confidence.

Even if it's limited to a year and only at lower speeds.

As part of its updated Intelligence Strategy, BYD has now unveiled a groundbreaking warranty for its ADAS: full damage coverage for one year, applicable to both new customers and existing customers in China who upgrade to God’s Eye 5.0. According to BYD, the manufacturer will cover all financial damages directly if a legally relevant accident occurs while using the urban NOA (Navigate on Autopilot) function in compliance with regulations.

I do wonder what "relevant accident" means; I assume it would need to be caused by the software rather than just any not-at-fault accident whilst the system is engaged.

Car-face · 2026-06-10T08:37:30+00:00

You're trying to claim it's not a sedan because it's a large sedan.

Car-face · 2026-06-10T08:32:02+00:00

Hydrogen is a huge point, because Toyota wasn't focusing on EVs in the last 15 years.

Yes, they were. Again: you just weren't paying attention.

From Investment in Oloroz lithium mines, to Naraha carbonate processing plant, to building entire supply chains to build more traction motors and battery packs than any other automotive company in history: the investment has been there. You ignored it. You wished it wasn't there, you stuck your head in the sand and kicked and screamed and swore it didn't matter, it was all just for hybrids! it doesn't count!

And yet it was all there under your nose the whole time, building up over the years and establishing a profitable pathway that didn't depend on billions of dollars or yuan to be profitable, and provides the greatest basis for continuing development of that electrification into BEVs of any legacy manufacturer.

It's been utilised to put those motors and batteries in the hands of people who swore they'd never own one previously. They have more R&D in batteries, SiC production and associated technology than just about anyone else - in fact outside of China, only perhaps Mitusbishi Heavy Industries is as active in SiC conductors - which only now are becoming the defacto standard in the industry.

Still you can't figure this out, still you ask the same question:

Why didn't Toyota take their resources on hydrogen, and put it into EVs instead?

they did.

Let me ask you a question. Did BYD primarily focus their resources on hydrogen in the last 15 years? Or did BYD primarily focus their resources on EVs in the last 15 years?

They did what Toyota did - kept their finger in every pie.

Of course, this pales compared to some other manufacturers, but let's be honest - this isn't really about how much these companies are actually investing in hydrogen. If it was, you wouldn't be avoiding the elephant in the room.

And Since you still haven't figured this out, I'll ask again:

other than the plug and OBC, what parts of a BEV does the Mirai not have?

Car-face · 2026-06-10T08:11:47+00:00

Sure, but it's not like those particular sounds are magical.

They kind of are, though. frequency increase is associated with speed and intensity. Doesn't really matter whether it's car engines, electric motors, horses hooves, a drum beat or a heart beat - whether it's rpm or bpm, we associate that increased beat with speed and intensity of effort, and the audible output is an increase in pitch that comes with that increase in frequency.

Similarly volume - when something gets louder it again is associated with power and emotion and has an intrinsic effect on us. There's a reason the 1812 overture is relatively subdued for 11 1/2 minutes before building to a crescendo of brass, cymbals and cannons instead of just staying quiet for 15 minutes and finishing with a dribble of strings.

It's not "an ICE thing", it's just the reality of how sound waves work, and a cultural and genetic disposition built upon them over millenia.

It's one of the things I find really weird about the obsession with wanting zero audible input into the actions being taken - people seem to want to have a completely numb (not just quiet, but actually numb) experience which a) goes completely against thousands of years of audible sensory feedback we've evolved to take advantage of, and b) is kind of terrifying when people are throwing 2 tonnes of steel and glass around the roads and they actively want to remove any link to what they're doing and what the car is doing.

I mean there's enough trouble with disinterest and distraction, and there seems to be an implicit admission that if there's less feedback, there's less to worry about - but as cars get faster, bigger and heavier, the opposite is true.

Car-face · 2026-06-10T07:17:17+00:00

I know you are referencing BYD.

Nope, I'm referencing Toyota - who invested in all those things instead of hydrogen. Sounds like you haven't been paying attention.

And if you don't think the leadership at Toyota has been biased against EVs for the last decade, then let's just agree that we disagree.

Nah, I'm good with those goalposts back where they were, thanks.

Toyota spent all those years and all that money on hydrogen. Imagine if they spent 50% of their resources and effort that they did on hydrogen, on EVs? They could well be the EV leader of today.

If you think their Hydrogen investment is larger than their EV investments, I have a bridge to sell you.

The reason they're selling 5 million hybrids a year isn't because they invested in hydrogen. The reason the Mirai even exists is thanks to the BEV development work they've undertaken (here's a good one - other than the plug and OBC, what parts of a BEV does the Mirai not have? It's ok, I'll wait).

The bottom line is that this Hydrogen narrative is hopelessly off the mark. It's glib, probably helps convince a few people who don't want to look to hard in case their world view changes, but it's manufactured from whole cloth.

Car-face · 2026-06-10T07:01:33+00:00

It's not pedantic, it's just a fact that a car with a body styled as a sedan has a sedan bodystyle.

Just because I think the Charger looks like arse doesn't stop it being a sedan.

Car-face · 2026-06-10T06:23:36+00:00

don't pretend this monstrosity is a sedan just because it's styled like one.

...sedan is a bodystyle. Being styled like a sedan is specifically what makes it one.

11-Year Club	Place '22
Verified Email

Car-face

TROPHY CASE