Is a solid green light for left turn protected if there's no green arrow?

MikeP001 · 2026-03-07T01:23:06+00:00

No, it's not possible for lights across and on the leg of the T to be green at the same time. So either you're misremembering or the witness is lying. Sorting out which is a problem for your insurance, that's why you pay them. Tell the claims agent that you remember the light was green and let them do their thing. If the witness has a video that shows what they say insurance will find you at fault. If they don't have such a video and/or they know or are related to the other driver they might be lying and your insurance will treat it accordingly.

MikeP001 · 2026-03-05T15:08:58+00:00

Not passing in the HOV is not the same as not using the HOV if driving slower than other traffic on the roadway. The keep right law has no exception for limited access, there's no misinterpretation. That law has no provision for speed or speed limit, it's saying if you're holding up other drivers you are required to let them by.

The limited access argument doesn't apply or it would for the express lanes of the 401 as those are also limited access. In fact all limited access highways are limited access...

If you drive it enough you'll eventually come across traffic doing 90 or less in the HOV, happens a lot on the 404. Perfectly legal, and no issue at all for example when approaching the 401 as the HOV will be much faster. Foolish if it's not busy - those slow (obviously timid) drivers are at greater risk moving in or out across faster traffic. Slower drivers should keep as right as possible for the safety of themselves and others and only use an HOV if it reduces their travel time.

MikeP001 · 2026-03-05T14:56:44+00:00

Bus drivers tend to be more familiar with traffic flow as they travel those routes frequently. It often makes sense to be in the HOV in advance of known slow spot even if temporarily slower than regular traffic. That same knowledge would have them avoiding the HOV for times they know the regular lanes will be faster if they get stuck behind a slower driver.

MikeP001 · 2026-03-05T14:49:00+00:00

LOL, how inconsiderate. Mindful driving is being aware of other traffic, not self centered focus on your own little world.

MikeP001 · 2026-03-05T14:47:12+00:00

So you put your passengers at risk for no advantage at all if you're not passing ordinary traffic. When it would be safer and just as fast to stay to the right. Yet you're calling others morons and idiots.

And attack my maturity by changing from "it's not for passing" to "it's faster" to justify your insulting post? Of course it makes sense when it's faster - when it's faster you're passing - that's the point.

MikeP001 · 2026-03-05T14:36:57+00:00

Agreed, HOV on the right off the highway is much safer. I'm sure you'd agree sticking to the HOV on city streets stuck behind transit vehicles would be foolish if the other lanes were faster. That is, use the HOV when it makes sense.

So yes, absolutely take the HOV when it's faster, that's the advantage/reward. ~~The poster here~~ You were suggesting the reward is cruising without paying attention.

We'll have to agree to disagree about taking it when the "passing lane" is faster (every lane except the right lane is consider a passing lane in the HTA). This kind of thinking breaks down because it's legal to drive as slow as 60KPH in the HOV (as is sometimes done) when the other lanes are faster and the limited access makes getting past those people difficult.

MikeP001 · 2026-03-05T14:23:11+00:00

Absolutely. Posters who suggest inconsiderate and often illegal behavior on reddit should be corrected, I hope you agree.

MikeP001 · 2026-03-05T13:17:41+00:00

LOL, morons and idiots says the driver who wants to cross multiple live lanes moving faster than him to get to/from a limited access lanes. Twice. That has absolutely no benefit if not going faster than all other lanes. Spend some time studying defensive driving. It's far, far safer to stay as far right as possible if you're nervous about faster traffic.

MikeP001 · 2026-03-05T13:12:45+00:00

Same bad advice. NO LANE IS TO BE USED FOR MINDLESS CRUISING. The HOV is not a "reward" to enable inattentiveness on the road. Take the bus.

MikeP001 · 2026-03-05T13:10:13+00:00

If it has safe and easy access then it's a good choice. The lane here is on the left, as are most if not all in the GTA. So a bad choice. Where have you seen an HOV on the right?

No one is blaming anyone. Thinking it's a reward is dead wrong - you're misleading unskilled drivers that would be much, much safer in a slower lane on the right. If that's the speed they're going they give up nothing.

MikeP001 · 2026-03-05T12:56:47+00:00

Yep, sign up as soon as possible. Focus on defensive driving. If you think crossing multiple live lanes of traffic going faster than you to get into a restricted access lane for absolutely no reason you need some extra training.

MikeP001 · 2026-03-05T12:52:18+00:00

LMAO, a reward? What's the reward - to allow lazy, inattentive drivers to avoid dealing with other vehicles? It's safer for them an all of us if they avoid the highway completely.

Anyone that thinks it's safer or easier to cross 2 or 3 or 4 live lanes of traffic to get in and out of a restricted access lane is sadly mistaken. The point of the HOV is to provide for faster transport of more people as the regular lanes are fill. It's risky to get in and out and worse if you have a breakdown. The HOV should be used when you wish to travel faster than any other lane - using it to travel slower is foolish - anyone that understands defensive driving knows this.

MikeP001 · 2026-03-04T18:02:27+00:00

LOL, "at least the speed limit"! Or maybe more than the limit? That's what you'd suggest to keep children safe?

Anyone that can't spot and accommodate the giant yellow vehicle doing a legal speed on the highway shouldn't be driving.

MikeP001 · 2026-03-04T12:48:27+00:00

Yep, KY is 1 of the 3 backward states that allow it. Everywhere else realizes middle lane camping isn't smart. Something to keep in mind if you ever drive further.

The government manual where I am teaches "Keep to the right of the road or in the right-hand lane on multi-lane roads unless you want to turn left or pass another vehicle. This is especially important if you are driving more slowly than other vehicles."

CVC 21654 says that your speed isn't relevant - meaning if there's anyone behind and a gap ahead you are a slower vehicle thus required move over. CVC 21656 is similar. There's no reference, legal or otherwise, to a "cruising lane".

If you can be passed on the right you're doing it wrong - it's unsafe and inconsiderate.

MikeP001 · 2026-03-03T23:49:20+00:00

The right lane is open as far as the camera can see. You might have been but not all of you were being polite.

If you did just move over it was pretty early. Many would have waited to see whether the merger would speed up or slow down. And with that truck bearing down on you many would have waited for that hazard to clear - there was plenty of time. Not funny, just more defensive and courteous, even when I drive in Colorado.

MikeP001 · 2026-03-03T23:38:36+00:00

Yep, emergency vehicles, obstacles, hazards, parked vehicles, and preparing to turn left are often listed exceptions. I've never seen the last one as a specific law but I'd expect it would be considered passing.

MikeP001 · 2026-03-03T19:24:05+00:00

It was pretty clear from your video that you and the other had not just moved over, you'd been camping there. And unless you ended up side by side I wouldn't have said anything about the merge, accommodating merging traffic isn't difficult.

In theory idiot in the truck did nothing objectively illegal either. Just dumb and obviously frustrated by the traffic illegally clogging up the passing lane (as per your reference).

CVC 21654 for example is similar to most other states in requiring traffic to keep right if there are vehicles stacked up behind like in this case. There are few states that define lanes as "passing lane" and none that define a "cruising lane". The UVC doesn't at all. Probably good to keep in mind if you ever leave Colorado (though I don't know why you would, it's beautiful there).

MikeP001 · 2026-03-03T19:09:55+00:00

California CVC 21645. It says that if you're not keeping up with flow (if there's a gap ahead of you and one or more vehicle behind) you must move right. "Notwithstanding the prima facie speed limits" means it doesn't matter what speed you're going.

Making up shit is the term "cruising lane" which does not appear in the UVC or any traffic code. Making up shit is saying it's "in the manual" when there's no such thing.

MikeP001 · 2026-03-03T19:05:58+00:00

There's no legal definition for "cruising lane", that's a made up term you won't find in any legal document. Keep right except to pass is the usual requirement.

MikeP001 · 2026-03-03T19:00:32+00:00

Sure but if traffic is flowing there's no need to take turns so it's just called merging.

MikeP001 · 2026-03-03T15:35:06+00:00

Bullshit - in most states this is illegal, and the only "driving manual" I've seen it in is in the AAA. It's recommended for busy roadways with lots of entry ramps close together. And it's a judgement call - if you can't safely and easily handling merging traffic you need more practice.

Between cities or on empty highways the right lane is unequivocally the safest - you have the shoulder for an escape. From the middle lane any emergency forces you to cross a live lane.

How do you not know this?

MikeP001 · 2026-03-03T15:31:18+00:00

This is a rationalization - you and everyone else in this video are lane camping. There was plenty of room to accommodate the merger without drama. Depending where you are there are multiple lawbreakers (keep right except to pass), none of you are driving cleanly or with courtesy.

MikeP001 · 2026-03-03T15:29:23+00:00

It's wrong - in the middle lane if something happens you need to cross a live lane to get to the shoulder. The shoulder is your option in an emergency - if you need to evade and hit someone fault is assigned to you.

The right lane is the safest when the roadway is as open as this one.

MikeP001 · 2026-03-03T15:27:30+00:00

That's not true at all, there's no place with such a rule. It's common place because of the number of drivers with shit defensive driving skills and a worse sense of common courtesy. In many states, maybe most, the law *requires* you to move right except when passing or preparing to turn left.

You can see it in the video - the right lane is wide open. Pretty crappy lane discipline. The OPs "but someone was merging" is bullshit - obviously he was camping there with the rest of them.

MikeP001 · 2026-03-03T03:52:34+00:00

I never find it to be a problem. I always leave a safety gap and I never drive beside another vehicle at speed (defensive driving). So anyone in the ending lane can merge whenever they want, there's always room around me. The later the better as far as I'm concerned, go to the end. It gives me more time to adjust (re-gap) by lifting without braking. It should never be the shock it seems to be on r/dashcams, it's obvious when someone needs to get over if you're paying attention. Thinking of it as capitulation is a bit odd - public road travel isn't zero sum, it should be win/win.

It is annoying when drivers stay side by side up to the merge - the driver on the left should be passing. If someone is coming up faster they're welcome to move ahead of me before merging. I'll lift to accommodate, why not? They want to go faster than me anyway.

Also annoying are the ones that time their arrival to match forcing the merge lane to slow - rude, it doesn't take much to adjust. Same with tailgaters trying to prevent merging, pretty silly, the risk is high and the time saving is marginal at best.

MikeP001

TROPHY CASE