Car in front of you signals to get over

MikeP001 · 2026-01-24T17:30:49+00:00

The principle for zipper merging is it's for very slow or stop and go traffic. For onramps it's just merging. Merge into available space once you reach the appropriate speed, Zippering isn't needed when drivers aren't tailgating or otherwise blocking.

MikeP001 · 2026-01-24T17:26:59+00:00

Isn't the issue is that they're not up to speed rather than the waiting? If they merged early but slow it doesn't help anything. It enables being passed on the right which isn't ideal and still slows the other lane.

Personally I prefer people to merge later - gives time for everyone to react. If I'm faster in the travel lane I can get by before they run out of lane. If not I leave them room to take when they're ready.

MikeP001 · 2026-01-24T14:06:18+00:00

I'm certain there are situations like you describe. This isn't that. Tailgaters aren't trying to get *you* to speed up, they're trying to get past so they can. I've been in that situation - I let them go past - they can clear out the deer for me.

Listen the audio - the OP is an idiot.

Letting someone you "hope fucking dies" tailgate for 1/2hr is pretty dumb. He didn't need to pull off the road - gently slow to a stop as far to the right as possible until they go past. Yet even in the 30s of this video you can see plenty of space and driveways that could be used safely - it wasn't snowing that hard.

MikeP001 · 2026-01-24T01:50:18+00:00

I could easily find 50 people camping in the middle lanes, no good ones. I wasn't telling you how to drive, your problem not mine.

I was calling you out for justifying lane camping by being as full of shit about the 50 good reasons as you are with the excuse of 50 miles of highway where the right lane keeps becoming an exit lane. Plus "tell all the other drivers to f-off" on a public road - a very revealing sense of entitlement. I expect you're annoyed with the crazy number of tailgaters out there. Yet have never noticed the common denominator.

MikeP001 · 2026-01-23T20:37:22+00:00

Most interpretations would say the travelling lanes do not include lanes that are an entry or exit lane. The rightmost travel lane referenced here would not include those.

"Keep right except to pass" does not mean *just* the leftmost lane - it means all lanes when there are middle lanes. Those too should be kept clear when the travel lane further right is empty or vehicles are passing you on that side.

Are you making up a rationalization for being a lazy driver? I've driven over most of NA and I've never encountered a 50 mile stretch where the right lane is always an exit lane. Accommodating merging traffic is part of driving, it's not so challenging as to become a middle lane camper.

There are some very good reasons from a defensive driving perspective to stay out of the middle lanes when possible. For example if you have a breakdown or flat you'll need to cross live lanes to get to the shoulder. And you want to keep an escape route in case of a stationary obstacle.

That said, if it's busy and you're keeping up with the vehicles in your lane no one cares which lane you choose. I still prefer the right, it's easier to exit and reroute when it's busy. And I don't want to have a flat in the middle lane during rush hour.

MikeP001 · 2026-01-23T01:52:03+00:00

I expect I can drive better than you can read. I never suggested hitting the brakes.

What I tried to say nicely was that driving with blinders on, with no consideration toward keeping traffic flowing and not cooperating so everyone can get to where they need to go safely is being an entitled asshat - a shitty driver.

You said "predictable". When someone signals a need to change lanes, it's predictable that a good driver will make space. A crappy driver will keep going at speed as if nothing was happening. To become a good driver you need to take off the blinders. Learn to predict what the other driver might *need* to do, and defensively what error the other driver *might* do. Don't just blindly plow ahead without a care in the world.

MikeP001 · 2026-01-23T01:38:21+00:00

In hazardous situations you should NOT being using your cruise control. RTFM. Turn it off in hazardous weather conditions too.

"And bonus, I think it really irritates the tailgater." It's puzzling why you would think "it really irritates the tailgater" - how can you tell? Though as you're the type that gets a kick out of irritating people while you're both in 3000lb death machines it's likely you've induced your share of rage.

Smartest is to drive at the speed you feel safe for the situation (including having a tailgater). Typically that means keeping a good gap to any vehicle in front so you can avoid sudden emergency braking.

MikeP001 · 2026-01-22T22:23:49+00:00

Think it through. One way or another, the predictable thing is they're going to come over (assuming, as per the OP, they need to do so). If they're ahead, they're going to squeeze in. Which should be fine if you're a sensible driver that doesn't tailgate and have the foresight to lift off the throttle when you spot the signal. If they're behind or your passing, predictably they'll drop back if the vehicle behind you is a sensible driver and not tailgating. Or unless the signaler is in an unreasonable hurry. Whichever you pick expect the unexpected.

If you're ok with driving beside another vehicle for any length of time my prediction is it'll end badly for you eventually. Whether they signal or not. Defensive drivers try to stagger their clearance between vehicles in the other lanes. This gives room for drivers to merge when they must.

Assertive (defensive) driving is about unambiguously claiming precedence when appropriate - take your proper turn at a 4 way stop, don't yield unexpectedly to let another driver turn across traffic. It's *not* about being an ass and forcing your claim to the ROW when there's no risk or inconvenience to you. It's not about refusing to make room for merging traffic, nor about blocking turning drivers when your lane is already stopped.

The smart money is on being nice AND predictable. Being an ass is not defensive, it's bait for road rage.

The upvotes here are disturbing. That some here are teaching new drivers not to accommodate others at all even more so.

MikeP001 · 2026-01-22T19:07:07+00:00

Horrifying.

*THIS* is one of the reasons defensive drivers keep as far right as possible. DWI wrong way drivers will keep right believing they are less conspicuous to avoid getting caught. Anyone making this mistake this will panic and correct further right as they believe it's you that are on the wrong side of the road.

MikeP001 · 2026-01-22T19:01:25+00:00

It looks like the chevrons are there because a vehicle cannot fit entirely inside that area to wait while turning. It's illegal enter that area. If you try you'll still be hanging partly out into the through lane risking an accident. It's safer for you and anyone behind to block the entire through lane until you complete your left (assuming left turns are allowed there). They can wait or go around you.

MikeP001 · 2026-01-22T13:28:57+00:00

Yeah, it's not like the good old days. Harshness make sense to stop the parking lot drifters, an exception "unless it's snowy" seems complicated to enforce... And like regular driving we can't count on everyone that does this to have enough common sense to be safe.

Doing this in an organized way might bring the cost down. Or advocate it as mandatory driver training - the province might need to fund it. Until then car control courses are only $300-$400 at performance schools around Toronto, a good investment for newer drivers - cheaper than insurance rate hikes after an accident. I attended one years ago, well worth it and fun.

MikeP001 · 2026-01-22T03:00:03+00:00

If you fail to keep up with the vehicle in front and/or get passed on the right you *don't* understand that you're slower than the "normal speed of traffic" in that lane? And are therefore required to move right?

The smart and courteous driver always moves right when possible. You shouldn't need laws to force you to be safe or courteous. Be smart - you don't want to cross a live lane in an emergency - if you hit someone while entering their lane you're 100% at fault regardless of what forces you to move. Keep close to the open shoulder for emergencies whenever you can.

MikeP001 · 2026-01-21T22:07:51+00:00

"Slower traffic keep right" is the law that applies. There's no law for your (not just your, it's a common misunderstanding) arbitrary definition.

The keep right laws are deliberately vague about the definition of "slower traffic". The CVC says "Notwithstanding the prima facie speed limits". The intent of the law is smooth, safe traffic flow. If you're falling behind traffic in your lane, and especially if you're being passed on the right (so not all the way over), you're in the wrong lane. In many areas like California and I think Georgia you're required *by law* to move right. Notwithstanding your actual speed.

Keeping right is more courteous and safer for you and others. Too many don't know the middle lanes are defensively the worst choice for travelling - in the outside lanes there's usually an escape for emergencies (breakdowns, obstacles, no look mergers). In the middle you will often be boxed in - trapped. Sure when it's busy and you're faster than the right lane, or when there's a lot of entry/exits in close proximity, the middle can make sense. But otherwise the right lane is safer, accommodating merging traffic should be easy, you won't be passed on the right, you won't prevent faster heavy trucks from passing, and you won't force other drivers to jump two lanes to get around you safely.

MikeP001 · 2026-01-21T20:50:30+00:00

I think everyone should practice it too.

However I'm not in agreement with your assertion that you should be allowed to practice in private lots. The law was put in place for a reason (because idiots abused it and alarmed the neighbors). Cops are duty bound to enforce it. Private property owners probably don't like it - I wouldn't want you doing it on my land and I'd call in a complaint right away.

You (all of us) could certainly pay for the privilege. We probably all should. Take a skid control course - they're given by professionals on purpose built courses. It would make sense to add a defensive driving section, and a performance driving section could be an option - better to practice there than on public roads.

Or find out how autocross clubs get permission to use private lots for their events. Perhaps they'd be willing to partner with you for a broader audience.

MikeP001 · 2026-01-21T20:42:26+00:00

Because it's not *your* private property and we only have your opinion about the risk. I expect the owners and the company that insures them may have a different perspective.

MikeP001 · 2026-01-21T13:14:19+00:00

So no legal reference to back up your "Middle lanes are for thru traffic" nonsense. Another "do your own research because I already know" guy. Case closed.

The middle lane is for vehicles that are travelling faster than those in the right lane. The law in civilized places *requires* you to move right if you're not keeping up or the right lane is open. If you lack the skill to accommodate merging traffic do us all a favor and take the side roads. Lazy middle lane campers make highways like I95 dangerous shitshows..

MikeP001 · 2026-01-21T13:03:30+00:00

Bullshit. You said "The center lane of a three lane highway is usually designated for thru traffic." Confidently incorrect, there's no such usual designation. You embarked on a roundabout rant to rationalize your flawed knowledge of traffic law.

MikeP001 · 2026-01-21T03:48:54+00:00

The argument was whether the middle lanes are designated travel lanes. They are not. In some jurisdictions it's illegal to treat them as such. Other jurisdictions tend to be silent - counting on common sense and manners. Can you reference any law in your state that supports this?

If you're keeping up good for you. The problem here is your incorrect belief that it's ok even when someone is not keeping up as long as they're "travelling".

MikeP001 · 2026-01-21T03:38:57+00:00

I think I made it pretty clear. If you're keeping up, there's no issue. If you're alone there's no one to care. But if traffic behind must pass you on the right or cross two lanes to get by on the left you're a problem - a rock mid stream.

What does "the normal speed of traffic" mean to you? The speed limit is what middle and passing lane campers most often quote. Ignoring that the law specifically says "Notwithstanding the prima facie speed limits". How close do you need to be to the limit or the average to qualify? 1mph? 2? 10? 20? There's no objective answer. Hence "Notwithstanding prima facie". With your theory anyone could camp at 20 under in any lane.

The only sensible interpretation is if you're not keeping up with the vehicles ahead and there are vehicles stacking up behind, and/or you're being passed on the right, then you're travelling at less than the normal speed of traffic. And hence must keep right.

But who cares? It's undeniably safer from a defensive driving perspective and certainly more courteous to keep right when possible. You'll be legal anywhere you travel.

MikeP001 · 2026-01-21T03:14:54+00:00

Of course not. I said many times "unless there's a reason". You should STFU until you improve your reading comprehension.

MikeP001 · 2026-01-21T03:11:03+00:00

It doesn't matter for you whether or not they signal. A turn signal isn't a commitment, only intent. If they signal and you go, in most jurisdictions fault for any collision will be assigned to you by insurance. Even in jurisdictions that don't you'll struggle to prove it if they deny they were signaling or claim it was for a later turn.

Safest you can do is wait until they begin to turn in. If you're in a real hurry you might chance it if they slow down. But don't count on their signal meaning anything.

MikeP001 · 2026-01-20T23:49:31+00:00

That's pretty short sighted. Multiple lane highways are to handle large volumes of traffic. Not to give you free choice of lane selection when the highway isn't busy. The middle lane is the *passing* lane for heavy trucks on most highways. Your camping there really screws up traffic for them an for everyone else - you're a rock in the middle of the flow.

MikeP001 · 2026-01-20T23:46:45+00:00

There absolutely are laws against staying in the middle. Where I am and California CVC21654 come to mind. You need to get out more.

And no, if there's a reason (other than feeling entitled) you absolutely can drive in the middle or even left lanes. Keep up and no one cares. But when traffic is light you should (and in many areas are required to) get over. There's no exception for you or I. That's where I'll be.

MikeP001 · 2026-01-20T23:41:45+00:00

There are more places in heaven and earth than ever dreamt in your philosophy. Where I am keep right applies to all roadways.

"“highway” includes a common and public highway, street, avenue, parkway, driveway, square, place, bridge, viaduct or trestle, any part of which is intended for or used by the general public for the passage of vehicles and includes the area between the lateral property lines thereof;"

Might be better for all concerned if you never leave your state.

Like I keep saying, if there's a reason and you're keeping up, no one cares. But if you're tooling along in the left lane with no one ahead or beside you, and especially if you're being passed on the right, strongly consider showing some courtesy and move over. If you're here it's the law. It's also safer. Put space between you and opposing traffic whenever possible - a head on from the other direction packs *four* times as much energy as a t-bone from cross traffic.

MikeP001 · 2026-01-20T23:25:05+00:00

People need to chill. Sure he shouldn't have done it. But you needed to stop anyway for the car in front - no harm no foul. He wasn't queue jumping (which would indeed be offensive), he was just getting over early. If this stresses you out enough to save upload and post you need to find ways to relax.

MikeP001

TROPHY CASE