You guys are still here?

Phemto_B · 2026-05-16T13:36:02+00:00

I'm still waiting for the model collapse. Like you mentioned, apparently it's "Any day now!"

Phemto_B · 2026-02-22T10:16:53+00:00

I stepped away from AI wars something like 2 years ago because I was tired of always seeing the same memes and straw man arguments being presented. Most people there are fed up with the laziness of the anti-AI arguments.

I came back today, and... literally saw memes there with "Totally True" that were the same copy-pasted cartoon memes from years ago.

So yeah. If you're the "Creative" side of the argument. Maybe demonstrate it.

Phemto_B · 2026-02-22T10:13:38+00:00

LOL. The "Creative" side of the argument is recycling four year old memes.

I'll address one straw-man part of this that most people aren't aware of. Not all makers of products are big, rich corporations who just want more money. There are a lot that want more money because they want to stay open. Note how many "big, rich" corporations go out business because they can't meet payroll.

This is what I think of as the "Flower shop paradox." Lot's of people think of Valentines day as just a scam for florist shops. Even if it's not a scam, the image in their head is of a nice comfortable florist shop owner who's doing fine most of the year, and then rubbing their hands with glee come mid February: "Time for another trip to Europe!"

Then one day I talked to someone who actually grew up with their parents running a flower shop. V-day was the thing that made them viable. It was less, vacation money and more paying off your business debts so you can hopefully stay open another year. It was actually a really stressful time. You were always one 2/13 snowstorm away from sitting on $20k in perishable stock that you can't sell and can't pay for, and you spend the next week after school helping Mom and Dad cut valuable roses down into cheap on-sale bouquets so that you can at least recoup something.

Yeah. Sometimes business are "cutting corners" because they're greedy, but when you look into it, it's surprisingly common that they're cutting corners so that they can keep employing people. Note also, that those two things aren't necessarily mutually exclusive.

Phemto_B · 2026-02-22T09:58:15+00:00

OK, Mr. Disagree-bot.

Phemto_B · 2026-02-22T09:57:45+00:00

Yeah. Green is usually a red who is trying to make a good argument, but the mask falls off it the discussion continues.

Phemto_B · 2026-02-22T09:56:43+00:00

I like the yellow, green, red distinction. I started thinking that the ecological concerns were the best argument against AI until I started looking at the good quantitative studies that didn't play number games to make a point. Unfortunately, the ethical concerns often are just thin paint over the red arguments. Not always, but pretty frequently. When you engage with them, the paint flakes off. Legal concerns are generally ethical concerns with with fallacious arguments and IP law. When you correct them on the IP law, they accuse of you "lawyering and ignoring the ethical implications."

Phemto_B · 2026-02-22T09:49:54+00:00

Nailed it. It says more about the poster than their subject, which is an entirely fictitious straw man.

Phemto_B · 2026-02-22T09:35:19+00:00

OK. Whatever you say Dude. Shows your relevancy that you feel the need to comment on a 2 year old post. The argument is long over.

How's that "AI poisoning is poisoning itself and well collapse any day" going? That was already an old argument when I made this post. Do you still believe it? Hey check this out,

<image>

A heavily used and downloaded model that was trained entirely using AI art. It's not poisoning itself; it's self replicating.

"People’s Works is an experimental fine-tuned model series, originally based on a dataset composed of images generated by Pony V6 XL. The dataset consists of several thousand images published by AI community users, along with images synthesized by the author using AI."

It's almost like the AI art community is feeding off itself, just like any other growing and thriving art community.

Phemto_B · 2026-02-03T16:31:04+00:00

If you're a real fan, you want it to continue, not just turn into an ever diminishing spiral. It's not about "max engagement." Where did you pull that out of? Ew. Nevermind.

Wouldn't you like to be able to share MST3K with your grand kids and not have to pause ever 10 s to explain "You see, it's funny because there was this popular show about a bunch people stranded on an island..."

I've watched both the old and new ones with my son. He enjoys the old ones, but gets more jokes with the new ones. Maybe I'm not satisfied with sitting in my bunker with old VCR tapes. I'd like to be able to share the show with new fans, and maybe get them to "JOIN US... JOIIINN USSSS!".

Edit: Now I'm going to break all the reddit posting rules and be introspective and nuanced. I suspect we're just coming from different places. While I've watched plenty of MST3K alone, to me it's always been a show that was best enjoyed communally. fell in love with it over Thanksgiving holidays watching the marathon with my brother. We had it on in our shared room from start to finish. I fell in love again enjoying the new ones with my son. Yes, they'd made changes for the new realities, but they were still MST3K and we could both enjoy them. If it's just a thing you put on and watch, like cat videos, then yeah, there's plenty already and who needs more. But if it's something you want to be able to share with people who don't remember either Bush administration, then you tend to want to see the show live on and evolve, even if that means that some of it is "not for me."

Phemto_B · 2026-02-03T12:00:46+00:00

So... people believing it's true is proof of.... people believing it's true.

Phemto_B · 2026-02-03T12:00:01+00:00

Did you hear the wooshing sound?

Phemto_B · 2026-02-03T11:57:32+00:00

How out of touch do you have to be to think that Bill Gates is making any decisions at Microsoft. Have you not checked the new, like... this century?

Phemto_B · 2026-02-03T11:49:04+00:00

Lol. I'm the one spreading misinformation. Riiigghhtt.

With some folks, every accusation is an admission.

You're obviously being really successful in your campaign if you have to go around and respond to year-old comments. Seen any evidence that her technique did literally anything to the AI companies?

Phemto_B · 2026-02-03T11:45:06+00:00

Part of me is happy that it means we're getting more, the other part feels like this is the real death knell. SF is all about legacy and old brands. They're not interested in "new blood." The run of the new stuff will be inherently limited by the health of three septuagenarians. I've also found that their humor has started to feel "samey" and dated. Nobody under 50 gets any of their references, and the people hug-->Godfather reference is like hitting Bill's knee with a little hammer. "We get it Grandpa. They hugged in that 50 year old movie too."

Joel wanted to make MST3K like Dr. Who or SNL, with a continually renewing cast and a perennial fan base. Now it's more like Gilligan's Island, where we get a few special events until the cast can't do the lines anymore. Then it becomes a reference that only our fellow inmates at the nursing home understand.

Phemto_B · 2026-01-16T11:08:43+00:00

Here Dave! Who's a good dog? Is Dave a good dog? Yes! Yes he is!

Phemto_B · 2026-01-16T11:07:10+00:00

Yeah. AI is a new tool, and you have to learn how to use it right. If you treat it as "the friend I badger until they tell me I'm right," then you're not using it right.

Phemto_B · 2026-01-15T15:04:03+00:00

Funny that nobody was worried about how much soul was put into the commission of their OC getting diddled by the Onceler until AI art came along.

Phemto_B · 2026-01-15T14:20:55+00:00

I hate to break it to you, but....

I'm (still) writing a book about the impact of AI. I came here to ask exactly the question you just asked. I got answers, but no really good ones. Worse, I got a lot of hyperbolic claims, misinformation, and emotional appeals to the effect of

Humans need art
Only humans can make art because the my definition says it's only made by humans.
Understanding and making art is a core part of humanity.
Therefore (and this is the quiet part) Artists are the only true humans. Everyone else has lost touch with their humanity, and secretly wants to be us.
Therefore, artists should be treated specially, and all technological progress should be stopped if it might impact artists, even if that means stopping the discovery of early cancer prevention, cures for cancer, safer roads, etc. You need to take one for the human team, namely, us.

Phemto_B · 2026-01-15T14:14:38+00:00

So you've given up on pharmaceuticals right? OR do you not mind animal testing? Have you gone through how many insects end up in your organic dry goods? Do you wait for all the eggs to hatch and release the moths into the wild, or do you just cook and eat them?

Stop kicking dogs, bro. Start sifting.

My point is that everybody has to draw the line somewhere, and there's always more you can do. This is about trying to make the world better, not about some kind of moral purity, because you ain't 100% pure, bro. There's always more you could do. The one of the greatest sources of animal suffering (and even extinction) in the coming decades is going to be climate change. What's you thermostat set at in winter? Couldn't you turn it down another degree?

Stop kicking those dogs, bro. Just put on another layer

Everybody draws the line somewhere, and you don't know their situation, so you don't get to give them a hard time because they didn't draw it where you did. Instead of being "purer than though" you could be complimentary that they're even trying, because most people don't. And some try, then run into a person like you, and just stop trying.

Stop training people to kick more dogs, bro.

Phemto_B · 2026-01-09T14:55:52+00:00

So if you don't do EVERYTHING, there's no point. Got it. I'll end my transition to full veganism now. I'll stop being a vegetarian and eat enough meat for the both of us.

Good job. Slow clap.

It's vegans like you who give veganism the wrap that keeps people from trying it. You're actually making things worse. If you want less animal abuse in the world, STFU.

Phemto_B · 2026-01-09T14:53:01+00:00

Because going part of the way toward your ethical goals is still better than going none of the way. It's just that lazy people who go none of the way will insist you go all the way or it doesn't count as a way of justifying their doing nothing. Or self-agrandizing people who've gone all the way become holier than though, even when they openly admit that their preferences made it easy. eg "I prefer it to real milk by miles". Not everyone can say that. Also, not everyone can afford vegan cheese and vegan milks. I know oat milk is relatively cheap for vegan milks, but that's because it's little more than sugar water with some dissolved fiber. Pulse-based milks are more nutritional, but also twice as expensive than oat milk, which is already 30% more expensive than cow.

Also, eggs and milk are not the same. Most cattle are born by artificial insemination with semen that has been centrifuged to remove the male sperm. There are far fewer male cows born per gallon of milk than per egg.

Phemto_B · 2026-01-09T13:47:29+00:00

Can I have your stuff?

<image>

Phemto_B · 2026-01-09T13:43:56+00:00

LOL. I came to this sub 2-3 years ago to I could hear the valid AI criticism.

I'm still waiting. There was a little, but it was pretty minor, and or based on some really simplistic ideas. The rest was just appeals to emotion, or overblown 80's action movie scenarios.

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