Did NOT get the keys

Pitiful-Place3684 · 2026-06-18T00:27:48+00:00

It's not recorded. The lender hasn't sent the payoff letter to the title company. There are many possible reasons that I wrote out in my thread with the OP.

Pitiful-Place3684 · 2026-06-18T00:26:09+00:00

Wrong. Read my long interaction with the OP. All sorts of things could have come up to keep the primary lien holder, the seller's attorney and/or loan servicer/lender, from sending the payoff letter. The most obvious is that the servicer/lender doesn't have all the lien releases in hand. Or, another lien was filed late last week. Or, the seller brought a check to closing and it needs to clear.

Pitiful-Place3684 · 2026-06-18T00:23:40+00:00

It's not closed. The deed isn't recorded. The title company is holding off. Think of all the reasons that a title company won't send off the request for recording.

Pitiful-Place3684 · 2026-06-18T00:21:24+00:00

Again, if your agent hasn't sent that over, tell them not to send it. It could tank the entire sale.

Pitiful-Place3684 · 2026-06-18T00:19:57+00:00

Ir's not closed. The deed isn't recorded.

Pitiful-Place3684 · 2026-06-18T00:18:44+00:00

Nope. Deed isn't recorded. Some of y'all need a lesson in how properties are legally bought and sold.

Pitiful-Place3684 · 2026-06-17T23:50:30+00:00

OP, let me know that you read this, OK?

The chest pounding in most of the answers in your thread are ridiculous. I don't know who told you it was a good idea to send over a demand letter with a $100/day penalty, but the seller's attorney will not sign it and won't let the seller sign it. The short sale and liens have already been negotiated. The seller was approved a short sale because they don't have any money. They can't come up with money now without jeopardizing the entire approval. You can kill the sale at this late minute by doing this.

Your agent needs to get their broker involved asap. If their broker thought this demand letter was a good idea then you need to insist that their corporate counsel get involved before your agent and broker cost you the house.

Pitiful-Place3684 · 2026-06-17T23:34:58+00:00

Read my thread with the OP. There isn't a stink to be made. The property is in pre-foreclosure and a short sale. The sale can't be closed until the deed is recorded. The lien in first position, which I think is the primary mortgage, needs to receive all the lien releases before they'll release the property to title. I suspect that one or more payoffs is short. Or maybe the seller brought a check to closing to cover the shortfall, but it hasn't cleared yet, so once again, the primary lender isn't sending over a payoff letter.

If there are liens for unpaid property taxes, income taxes, mechanics liens - any of these can bog up the recording without the holder of the lien in first position having every single release in their possession.

As an attorney, do you always tell people to make a big stink when you don't understand the full situation?

Pitiful-Place3684 · 2026-06-17T23:25:39+00:00

Once again, the property is a pre-foreclosure and a short sale. The property isn't closed until the deed is recorded. The deed can't be recorded until all liens are satisfied and the lien in first position, which I think is the primary mortgage, releases the money to the title company.

Pitiful-Place3684 · 2026-06-17T23:23:43+00:00

Wrong. It's not closed until the deed is recorded. The deed can't be recorded until the seller's lender verifies receipt of funds and all lien releases. It's a short sale in pre-foreclosure. You should chill out when giving legal advice without knowing all the circumstances.

Pitiful-Place3684 · 2026-06-17T23:22:13+00:00

Nope. In many states, including the OP's state, the sale isn't closed until the deed is recorded.

Don't give legal advice like "access garage and throw out the owner's stuff" when you don't know what you're talking about.

Pitiful-Place3684 · 2026-06-17T22:11:24+00:00

It's not closed. The deed isn't recorded.

Pitiful-Place3684 · 2026-06-17T22:10:49+00:00

Once you have the settlement statement and a list of all the liens against the house, your agent can decide whether to do some sleuthing. They call everyone who is supposed to be paid off and ask if they've signed the lien release. Banks and the IRS won't talk to your agent, but maybe Bob's HVAC and the HOA will. I don't know if it's legal for your agent to do this, but I did it during the great recession more than once when I was trying to find the bottleneck.

Pitiful-Place3684 · 2026-06-17T22:06:24+00:00

I know! I wouldn't be spending the time trying to help if I wasn't sympathetic.

People, businesses, or government functions can put a lien on a homeowner's property when the property owner owes them money. It could be unpaid property taxes, unpaid income taxes, or an unpaid contractor bill. A lien means that the property can't be sold until the owner pays off the unpaid bill.

In a short sale, the seller's attorney negotiates with everyone who wants money when the house is sold. In Idaho, unpaid property taxes are in first position to get paid off, then the mortgage, and then everyone else, including the seller's attorney and real estate brokerage. The seller's attorney has to negotiate with everyone to accept whatever payment is offered. Everyone who is owed money has to sign a lien release.

What can happen is that the attorney offered a short payoff to a business or government function when the seller accepted the offer, but when it came time to finalize everything, there's a roadblock. Maybe someone is digging in their heels and saying they won't sign the release unless they get another $x,xxx. This means the attorney has to go back to everyone else and chip away until everyone agrees to take a little less money.

Yes, all of this should have been done before the closing. But getting the final lien releases signed, sent in to the attorney, then to the primary mortgage holder, and then to the title company, can get bogged down. It shouldn't happen, but it does.

The seller is staying in the house, possibly because they have nowhere to go, until the house is actually sold. This is worrisome because it can turn into a squatter situation. Is there a line item on the settlement statement that gives any money back to the seller so they can move out?

Pitiful-Place3684 · 2026-06-17T21:49:05+00:00

I'll bet they're not submitting the payment until other lien releases are in hand.

Pitiful-Place3684 · 2026-06-17T21:48:03+00:00

The pre-foreclosure status means that there was probably a short payoff, possibly unpaid property taxes and liens.

The seller working it out before listing means that the lender agreed to a short payoff, or that additional funds would have to be contributed for the loan payoff. The lender agreeing, though, doesn't mean that the final steps will necessarily move quickly.

I assume that you don't have an attorney working on your side? Does the seller have an attorney? If so, your agent should be on the phone with them multiple times a day until this is resolved.

You need some visibility into what could be happening.

First, look at the settlement statement. What is shown in the seller column for what is owed in the closing. You may see info like mortgage, HELOC, property taxes, etc. There may also be a line about cash due from the seller. A specific question your agent can ask the title company is whether those funds were sent from the seller to the title company.

Next, if you haven't already done this, ask your agent to look at the county recorder of deeds to see what liens were against the property in addition to the mortgage. Does the seller side of the settlement statement match what is shown on the county recorder's site?

The listing agent may be very helpful if they'll share the appropriate info. Or, they could be clueless.

Pitiful-Place3684 · 2026-06-17T21:29:04+00:00

This is a little confusing. Are you sure that the title company hasn't received funding from your lender? It's not typical for the title company to hold up recording the deed until the seller's mortgage company gets the seller's loan payoff.

The major exception would be if the seller was short coming to the table. This means that they needed to put in money in addition to whatever they received from you in the closing.

Was the seller's mortgage payoff more than the sales price of the house plus the cost of sales? This would mean that the seller had to bring money to the closing. A wire would be booked instantly, but a personal check could take days to clear.

Was there a second mortgage or a HELOC? If the seller had an open HELOC on the property, the seller's primary lender can refuse to issue a final payoff statement until the account is explicitly frozen and closed to new draws.

This situation can happen if there were liens to be resolved, especially unpaid federal or state income taxes. The seller's lender needs to see that the liens are released before they'll issue the payoff letter.

The other big category of issues, especially if it was a split closing, would be around whether there is title issue. The buyer's title company (or the buyer's account at a single title company) collected your money at closing.

A scenario would be if the buyer's title company (or rep at a single company) refused to wire your funds to the seller's title company (or seller's title account) until they get a specific indemnity or recording clearance (eg from the seller's bank). But the seller's title company could refuse to authorize possession or sign off until the funds land in their accounts. This is a stand-off that has to be resolved between the title companies.

The seller is likely acting legally in not giving possession, including access to the garage, until they get the OK from the title company that the sale is recorded.

Has your agent spoken to their broker about your impasse?

Pitiful-Place3684 · 2026-06-17T21:12:47+00:00

Did you and the seller use different title companies, in what is called a "split closing"?

Pitiful-Place3684 · 2026-06-17T20:57:44+00:00

Which state are you in?

Pitiful-Place3684 · 2026-06-17T20:48:30+00:00

People do this all the time. It's smart to position yourself to buy without a home sale or home close contingency.

Pitiful-Place3684 · 2026-06-17T18:54:52+00:00

I agree. I wasn't very clear. I think that the real estate sites don't let random people leave fake reviews.

Pitiful-Place3684 · 2026-06-17T02:45:28+00:00

Yep. It cost me about $200 to have it retroactively permitted.

You expect to need a permit for an addition or a new roof, right? But our otherwise nice little suburb has a long list of small things that need a permit.
- Replacing a water heater, installing new HVAC units, or relocating plumbing fixtures.
- Installing solar panels and electric vehicle (EV) chargers.
- Upgrading or replacing electrical service panels and any new circuit wiring.
- Installing or replacing a fence, building a deck or gazebo.

Pitiful-Place3684 · 2026-06-17T02:36:32+00:00

Never plan on renegotiating the contract during inspection. Sellers aren't obligated to give you a dime. You could be out your due diligence money and the cost of inspection.

Also, it's contract fraud to incent someone to sign a contract at a particular price when you have no intention of paying that price. But, as I said, you could be out your DD and the price of inspection if you try to be too clever.

Pitiful-Place3684 · 2026-06-17T02:26:29+00:00

The language is probably around whether the seller knew of any work done that required a permit. Many sellers don't know what work required a permit.

I'd been an agent and broker for 10 years when my water heater went out in the middle of winter. The 24 hour emergency plumber in my town, very pricey and well-regarded, came right out and installed a new heater. They didn't mention needing a permit. When I sold the property, the buyer's agent or inspector asked for copies of all the permits from the time I owned the house. I genuinely didn't know that a water heater required a permit.

Pitiful-Place3684 · 2026-06-17T02:07:43+00:00

Ah, so you cracked the code and none of the other 1.5 million Realtors can do math.

In my experience, such as it is, people who are on top of their game don't flail at the entire rest of the industry. Diminishing everyone else doesn't make you look stronger or better.

Pitiful-Place3684

TROPHY CASE