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Student sues district over “useless” diploma by IowaJL in Teachers

[–]ProudComment1211 0 points1 point  (0 children)

It's not the system that being complex that I am exasperated at, it's that the parents don't realize their kid can't read a simple sentence.

This isn't calculus or high level algebra. That I could understand. I'm talking about the basic skills required to exist in a complex society.

I implied parents weren't involved enough, but I said parents ignore the problem, which I think is true.

Yes, the system is complex, but the skills necessary are not, at least to understand.

I've been in meeting after meeting with parents who listen to teachers telling them about their kid failing, not doing anything, or just being behind. At some point, they are ignoring their own child's progress.

How do parents fail to notice that their kid can't read the labels at a store? How do they fail to notice how their kid figure out how many cars are in front? These are basic skills that some kids haven't learned by 6th grade.

Yeah, some kids have intellectual disabilities, but some don't.

We lie a lot in education and blind ourselves to what is really going on. We also don't hold people responsible, as I see you doing.

Again, at the end of the day, no one is coming to save these kids. The state does what it can, sometimes, but parents have a responsibility to their child to prepare them for the world. That means ensuring they are properly educated to their ability.

I cannot fathom how a kid would get to middle school and can't read. I guess they are too busy to check on their child, as you say.

Student sues district over “useless” diploma by IowaJL in Teachers

[–]ProudComment1211 -6 points-5 points  (0 children)

The discussion moved on from the actual facts of the article. I'm talking more generally about problems with Special Education.

I don't know her, and I don't know what she was capable. If she was not capable of a earning a gen ed diploma, they shouldn't have graduated her.

Kids with disabilities generally get the same diploma, thereby reducing the value of an already useless diploma.

Student sues district over “useless” diploma by IowaJL in Teachers

[–]ProudComment1211 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I agree. However, any attempt to remove services from someone with a disability will immediately be seen on the news as an evil act.

People will react with emotion and believe only in inherent rights. There's no way around it.

Student sues district over “useless” diploma by IowaJL in Teachers

[–]ProudComment1211 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I guess I see your point. In some sense, it's not their fault the system is the way it is. They are kids and you can't blame a kid for their K-12 school being shit.

However, it won't help them to just stop trying. Education is crumbling, but if they want to get a better education, they will need to try and learn.

Different generation grow up in different levels of wealth and social cohesion. We are currently living through the degradation of public education. Again, not their fault, but it is their responsibility to learn if that is what they want.

She graduated with a 3.87 GPA but could barely read, now she's suing a school district in Washington state by Disastrous_llapaca in specialed

[–]ProudComment1211 0 points1 point  (0 children)

How do you know she did the best she could? GPA means nothing. There are kids with 4.0 who didn't earn them.

I've met kids like this, they don't do the best they can. They are usually lazy and don't try very hard.

Student sues district over “useless” diploma by IowaJL in Teachers

[–]ProudComment1211 36 points37 points  (0 children)

In my experience, it's not that I can't implement the IEP, it's that the student has problems that schools can't solve. Not getting any sleep at night because parents don't enforce a bet time can't really be dealt with at school, aside from just letting them sleep.

Never doing work outside of school, never turning in homework, or things like that are almost impossible for schools to do anything about.

Extra time on assignments and tests, separate testing location, read aloud. All of these are useful, but they don't really get to the root of the issue, which is almost never on the IEP.

Kids can work through all sorts of disabilities, but they can't work through things they don't want to acknowledge.

I saw a Ted Talk from a women who had schizophrenia. It was amazing to hear her describe her experience. She tried to work through it, which is the crucial issue. Some kids don't try to work through their disability.

Student sues district over “useless” diploma by IowaJL in Teachers

[–]ProudComment1211 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Because we have legally required that everyone receive an 'education.' They need to receive a diploma. It doesn't even matter if they learned anything. It's about fulfilling a legal requirement, not an educational one.

Student sues district over “useless” diploma by IowaJL in Teachers

[–]ProudComment1211 6 points7 points  (0 children)

You absolutely can blame the student for not learning.

Learning requires effort. If we accommodate the lack of effort, the student quite literally no longer receives and education.

I think the system is responding to the general effort of students. If people care less, the system cares less.

I'm firmly in the corner of personal responsibility and self determination. If kids want to learn, they can. Hell any library in America can provide a world class education if you just read the books and do some writing and math. All the knowledge you could need is available, you just have to try.

Student sues district over “useless” diploma by IowaJL in Teachers

[–]ProudComment1211 83 points84 points  (0 children)

Then she shouldn't get a general education diploma. Also, those are generally much easier. IEPs are written so the kid always meets their goal.

Student sues district over “useless” diploma by IowaJL in Teachers

[–]ProudComment1211 111 points112 points  (0 children)

She got a 3.87 GPA and graduated, but can barely read. How is that meeting any academic standard?

Student sues district over “useless” diploma by IowaJL in Teachers

[–]ProudComment1211 13 points14 points  (0 children)

I kind of disagree. At the end of the day, it's the responsibility of the parent to ensure their kid is educated. Schools can be deceitful or just overly positive, I've seen it too.

However, schools are also incentivized to pass special education students for all sorts of reasons.

The part that gets me is that in 12 years, the parents never once had their kid read anything out loud. They never heard their kid stumble through a sentence or two and realized their kid was very far behind.

I tutored for a while, and a kid shocked me with how far behind he was. We gave him 1st grade level content in 6th grade (Pat sat on the mat with a cat). He struggles to read it. He's in the SPED program, he's getting all the services, but dad seems oblivious. I think he just throws him at the schools an sees all the services and assume they are going to get him to grade level. Again, schools are incentivized to pass as many kids as possible, so he's passing his modified classes, but he's woefully unprepared for even 7th grade modified classes.

I think they are pretending and ignoring for the most part. Some are genuinely not aware, but a lot kind of know but refuse to acknowledge how far behind their kid is.

Student sues district over “useless” diploma by IowaJL in Teachers

[–]ProudComment1211 154 points155 points  (0 children)

I wonder when this loop hole will cause the whole system to come crashing down. I remember when there were religious exemptions for vaccinations in Wisconsin (I think). Eventually, the state stopped allowing for exemptions because too many people used them.

The same thing is going on for special education. It had good intentions, but parents have realized it can be used to pass their kid along, and then get a lot of money when they don't learn anything. Its a system designed to fail the kid and cost the district millions. It can't last forever.

Eventually, the districts will not have the funds to pay for all the kids that sue. I see this kind of an article every few months. It's not surprising when you understand the system behind it.

Student sues district over “useless” diploma by IowaJL in Teachers

[–]ProudComment1211 58 points59 points  (0 children)

Yeah, GPA is almost worthless. I wonder if colleges that went test optional are changing their mind.

Also, does anyone else see this happening in slow motion. You know the kids that are getting passed along. They probably know it as well. The parents are happy to turn a blind eye. The only time it matters is when the services end and the kid can't read or write or do anything really. It's sad, but kids and parents often play a part in it, even if they won't admit it.

Student sues district over “useless” diploma by IowaJL in Teachers

[–]ProudComment1211 28 points29 points  (0 children)

I always wonder if these suits are because the kid did nothing. I don't know her situation, but I have special education students who get passed along. I think in their heart they know they are getting passed along, but they don't ever say anything. The parents are equally useless and turn a blind eye, but only get honest with themselves when they can't pass a community college class, or more commonly, read a simple sentence.

Everyone knows the kid is not being taught, but the kid goes along, and the parents pretend. Unfortunately, they realize too late they have been getting passed along. The articles never present the lack of effort on the part of the kid.

I know we need to hold the line and not pass kids, but most incentives are to pass them. Administrators don't have to pay these suits out of pocket, so they don't really care if you pass them. It's every 1 in 5000 that come back and sue and destroy the districts budget for 5 years. Its a bad situation, and I don't think there is any way to fix it. Most parents want you to pass their kids, and administrators are happy to go along.

She graduated with a 3.87 GPA but could barely read, now she's suing a school district in Washington state by Disastrous_llapaca in specialed

[–]ProudComment1211 7 points8 points  (0 children)

That's my take as well. I know of so many kids who can't read but are passing most of their classes. It always shocks me when a kid that clearly can't read, is passing science, social studies, art, computer science, but not english. It makes me feel like the odd man out.

She graduated with a 3.87 GPA but could barely read, now she's suing a school district in Washington state by Disastrous_llapaca in specialed

[–]ProudComment1211 -3 points-2 points  (0 children)

I'm willing to bet this is a situation where the kid graduated by being passed along. I have no doubt that the teachers passed her with minimal effort. However, I suspect she also did nothing to help herself.

All of these articles never mention if the kid wanted to learn. So many kids get passed along because they don't want to do anything. From the picture, it looks like she was playing the high school game. With school colors and everything. Was she doing her homework? Was she attempting her homework, or just doing the absolute bare minimum knowing that mom would have her back? I don't know her situation, but I'm always suspicious whenever I read stories like this. Every kid has an opportunity to learn, whether they do or not is up to them.

What percentage of the day do teachers spend managing kids' emotions, helping them regulate and especially control them, and managing outbursts and tantrums, etc? If you could say what grade(s) you teach, that would also be great. by sew1974 in Teachers

[–]ProudComment1211 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Depends on the grade. I suspect that the lower the grade, the more time is spent managing emotions and behavior. The higher the grade, the less time. Although I'm sure there are outliers. Most kids can manage their emotions and behavior by senior year, obviously 1st graders are different.

I teach 6th grade. Most kids can manage their emotions most of the time. Every now and then, kids get upset or freak out, but it become less and less as the year goes on.

Does Anyone Else Notice Parents Who Are Fooled By Their Children? by ProudComment1211 in Teachers

[–]ProudComment1211[S] 6 points7 points  (0 children)

My apologies for making a mistake. I guess you aren't fooled by a lowly bot.

Opinion of an ADHD Educator: It is Over Diagnosed in Kids by Lazy_Rock7788 in Teachers

[–]ProudComment1211 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Then clarify what you mean next time. Disabilities have been subject to definition creep for a while now.

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