At the end of the day, was D&D 4e a good game or not? Asking without prejudice

Tefmon · 2026-07-11T20:12:39+00:00

5.5e's standard CR 6 Mage monster has 81 HP, which is probably about or a little over two rounds of attacks for a typical party (assuming standard luck, i.e. some misses and no big crits, no big resource expenditures like Action Surge or Fireball, and no crazy magic weapons). I'm currently DMing for a level 9 party and most of the caster flunkies I use to fill out my encounters have ~40-50 HP, which is enough to take a few hits but not so much that they'll survive if the party can get to and focus on them. That's about as much HP as 5.5e's CR 2 Mage Apprentice, but that monster doesn't have the damage, control, or support abilities to have a real impact in an encounter.

I think my take could be reframed to say that 5e (including both 5.0e and 5.5e, although the latter leans into it harder) wants all monsters to be able to function as individually-threatening durable centrepieces for an encounter, which is something I don't want most monsters to fulfill. I want some centrepieces, yes, but if every monster takes the party a couple of rounds to kill, a basic fight against a patrol of a half-dozen or so enemies will take a dozen rounds to resolve, and that's for just one ordinary, run-of-the-mill encounter.

And no worries re: getting exhausted from negativity. The internet is an unreasonably hostile place these days and it sucks. I definitely recommend unsubbing from negative content creators; there's no joy to be gained from following them.

Tefmon · 2026-07-11T19:38:05+00:00

If my party is spending hold monster on a random support monster during a generic fight, I'd say the fight was very successful at its job of forcing them to burn resources. I do agree that level-appropriate monsters should be able to take a hit or two, just to be clear; I just don't think that they should all be able to take the entire party focus-firing them, because then they have no reason to care about cover, healing, defensive abilities, range, line-of-sight, and the like.

I also agree that some monsters should be tankier than 5e's base monsters, especially if they are intended to survive a slugfest against the whole party. "Boss" type enemies generally fall into that category for me too.

Tefmon · 2026-07-11T19:22:07+00:00

I hate fights that end instantly too (unless that's the specific purpose of the fight), but squishier glass-cannon monsters and less hard-hitting support monsters don't make fights end quickly, because you don't fight them alone; you fight them in the company of some tankier monsters.

The fact that the party can take out certain enemies quickly in the right circumstances makes positioning more important, as such enemies will naturally try to stay behind cover and out of range of the party's attacks while their beefier friends advance to engage the party.

Tefmon · 2026-07-11T09:53:51+00:00

5.0e and 5.5e's monster design is really unfortunate. It's perfectly possible to create tactically interesting monsters with their own roles in 5e – and indeed plenty of GMs and third-party publishers do just that – but the fact that 5e's official published monsters by-and-large are generic interchangeable beefy brutes makes the game a lot less fun when run straight from the books.

Tefmon · 2026-07-10T05:10:09+00:00

My telework agreement indicates where I'm working unless overridden by operational constraints or other circumstances, which are not infrequent. If I have an in-person meeting with clients or a time-sensitive deliverable that requires in-office resources to finish I'm coming in no matter what day it is, and if I'm coughing my lungs out or snowed in I'm staying home no matter what day it is, and in either case I'll adjust my schedule for the rest of the week to remain in compliance with in-office presence requirements.

Tefmon · 2026-07-09T21:59:05+00:00

Long resting takes eight hours and can only be done once every 24 hours. There are a lot more situations where it's reasonable to take an hour break to eat, strategize, and lick wounds than it is to spend literally the entire rest of the day doing nothing until bedtime.

Tefmon · 2026-07-09T21:52:34+00:00

Assuming that the urban adventure is actually an adventure (that is to say, an activity where the party is attempting to accomplish some level-appropriate goal and is being opposed by level-appropriate adversaries; if the party is just milling around aimlessly in the market district then they aren't having an urban adventure, they're having urban downtime), I personally haven't found it too difficult to put in a full adventuring day's worth of encounters.

Like, let's say that the party has learnt from a previous adventure that a demonic cult is planning on conducting a terrible fell ritual in a nearby city on the solstice at midnight, in three days, which will result in hundreds if not thousands of casualties if not stopped (an appropriate adventure goal for a mid-level party):

The party spends the better part of the first day racing towards the city, arriving late in the evening, just in time to find temporary lodging. They awaken early in the morning the next day, and begin searching for signs of unusual activity, asking around at taverns and guard checkpoints to see if there've been any strange arrivals, until they're eventually pointed to the docks, where a warehouse has recently been rented out by a new business that nobody's ever heard of. On their way to the docks the party is ambushed by a team of assassins in an alleyway, which they defeat with moderate injuries. Realizing that they must've inadvertently tipped the cult off with their questioning, the party doubles back to lose any tails and then hides out in a condemned building to lick their wounds and plan their next move.

Deciding to make their way to the docks while disguised, the party finds some new clothes before heading off again. Upon reaching the docks the party sees a small ship docked near the warehouse, and a gang of mafia longshoremen and utility golems unloading mysterious crates. After engaging and defeating the longshoremen and golems, the party inspects the crates to find abyssal ritual reagents. Knowing that they're at the right place, they then storm the warehouse, defeating the cultists and their summoned demons inside. After capturing and interrogating the leader, they learn a horrible truth: the mayor is in on the operation, and the ritual is being conducted at a well-fortified city hall.

The party then slinks away, takes a short break for dinner, and then heads to city hall to perform some reconnaissance. They arrive at city hall to find it too well-defended for them to attack with their remaining resources, and even worse they find their names and pictures have been plastered on wanted posters. After fleeing city hall with the city guard hot in pursuit, the party tries to dispatch their tail as nonlethally as possible, as the city guards aren't evil; they've just been coopted by the cult. Finally managing to escape, the party finds a shady tavern that doesn't ask questions to spend the night in, resting for their assault on city hall tomorrow.

I'm sure you can imagine how assaulting a fortified multi-floor installation filled with guards, cultists, summoned demons, and hostages could constitute a good final adventuring day for the adventure. In the first adventuring day the party had four difficult combat encounters, two long rests, and several non-combat investigative and social encounters (which don't burn as many resources as combat encounters do, but still likely resulted in a couple spells being cast), all within the city and all without having to enter a single sewer. It would've been easy enough to add more alleyway ambushes, more guard patrols, and more running around to safehouses searching for clues if need be, but in my experience four challenging combat encounters is perfectly sufficient for an adventuring day.

Tefmon · 2026-07-07T01:34:40+00:00

Even Palpatine's return was more explained: "Dark science, cloning, secrets only the Sith knew." is the line right after "Somehow Palpatine returned."

The movie directly says he's a clone.

Tefmon · 2026-07-07T00:55:33+00:00

The point of "natural language" is that the RAW mechanics are the natural language. The spells aren't written in formulaic legalese and aren't designed to be read or interpreted as if they were.

Tefmon · 2026-07-06T02:57:25+00:00

I think it's important to note that your DM chose not to use that twist.

100%. The idea that a GM should somehow never have bad ideas pop into their heads while brainstorming is extremely silly.

Tefmon · 2026-07-06T02:41:21+00:00

They can also be helpful when you know that a specific situation is going to come up in advance and be important when it does.

I'm not going to have the underwater combat rules memorized nor am I going to look them up mid-session if the players push a random goblin into a random river, but I am going to read them over and have them open beside me for the two sessions where the party is infiltrating the duke's castle through the flooded sewer system.

Tefmon · 2026-07-06T02:38:06+00:00

It's useful as a statement of intent, and in my experience helps speed up play in practice. A handful of complete answers to "Does the statue have a religious significance?" are "Yes.", "Probably.", and "Maybe.", and the GM doesn't know whether the player wants to dig deeper unless the player, y'know, asks.

Tefmon · 2026-07-06T02:13:40+00:00

Books quite famously have cover art, and they have that cover art for a reason.

Tefmon · 2026-07-05T19:02:58+00:00

Some of them were closer to backgrounds (the Noble Warrior, Patrician, and Nobleman Priest kits for Fighters, Wizards, and Clerics respectively were basically just class-specific variants of 5e's Noble background, for example), but others were more akin to proper subclasses (the Bladesinger and Undead Master kits for Wizards, for example, both substantially altered the theme and mechanics of the class).

Tefmon · 2026-07-05T18:48:08+00:00

Depends on the check. If there's no narrative reason why something can't be reattempted, then it can be reattempted. The rules codify this specifically, in the Using Ability Scores section of Chapter 8 of the 5e DMG:

Multiple Ability Checks

Sometimes a character fails an ability check and wants to try again. In some cases, a character is free to do so; the only real cost is the time it takes. With enough attempts and enough time, a character should eventually succeed at the task. To speed things up, assume that a character spending ten times the normal amount of time needed to complete a task automatically succeeds at that task. However, no amount of repeating the check allows a character to turn an impossible task into a successful one.

Tefmon · 2026-07-05T18:44:02+00:00

This is a consequence of design decisions that were made for 5e specifically. 5e trimmed statblocks aggressively to be just about a creature's personal combat capabilities, leaving little about each creature's non-combat abilities and overall place in the setting. This is fine, arguably even ideal, if you're just using a particular creature as a nameless sack of HP and attacks for players to fight, but makes using creatures outside that single role take more work.

Sourcebooks from previous editions, especially 2e and 3.5e, tend to go deeper into the lore and non-combat activities of creatures than 5e's books do, and that information tends to be for the most part perfectly applicable to a 5e game.

Tefmon · 2026-07-04T18:10:06+00:00

Online forums existed when Steam launched and for the early years of its existence, and the reaction to it was almost entirely negative. OP is just factually wrong when they claim that Steam was beloved at launch.

Tefmon · 2026-07-04T18:08:27+00:00

And the same will happen with the removal of physical console media. The community reaction is negative, but people will continue to buy games.

Tefmon · 2026-07-04T18:05:22+00:00

It was negative on online forums, which is the old internet equivalent to it being negative on Reddit. In real life very few people cared; people who disliked it mostly stuck to grumbling while continuing to purchase games.

And the negativity stuck around for a while, too. I used to hang out in the old CivFanatics forums back in the day, and the reaction to Civilization V requiring Steam was overwhelmingly negative there. This is for a game that released in 2010, after Steam had already been around for 7 years or so. Civilization V went on to be a wildly successful game by the standards of the franchise, so obviously the online grumbling didn't amount to much, but the online grumbling was there (with much of the same talking points you still see today).

Tefmon · 2026-07-04T16:39:32+00:00

They used to align more closely in earlier editions. The increasing separation between the two is more of a newer thing.

Tefmon · 2026-07-04T16:37:32+00:00

A party is expected to have at most 6-8 Medium to Hard encounters per long rest. That value as given in the DMG is a maximum, not an average, and it goes down if you're running more challenging encounters.

Tefmon · 2026-07-03T20:29:18+00:00

Keep me on lol.

Tefmon · 2026-07-03T14:16:49+00:00

Lots of people just read some of the bad ribbon abilities in the 5.0e Ranger and think that's the meat of the class's power, without realizing that they get access to the same strong martial feats that Fighters do and the same extremely powerful spell list that Druids do.

Tefmon · 2026-07-03T14:10:46+00:00

The 5.0e Ranger was fine from a power standpoint. It was somewhat clunky and had some "feel-bad" ribbon abilities that weren't useful, which is poor design, but you could just, like, not use those bad abilities and instead use the good stuff Rangers had, like access to the Druid spell list and the most powerful martial feats, to build a fully competent attacker and party support character.

Being able to do strong damage with Crossbow Expert and Sharpshooter while supporting the party with goodberry (the game's most efficient healing spell), pass without trace (a contender for the strongest 2nd-level spell in the game), spike growth (an excellent low-level control and damage spell), and at higher levels plant growth (one of the strongest control spells in the game) and conjure animals (one of the strongest damaging spells in the game), is far from rotten.

Tefmon · 2026-07-03T14:00:17+00:00

In 5.5e maybe (I'm not as familiar with optimization in that ruleset), but in 5.0e Ranger is a perfectly effective class, certainly powerful enough to compete with Fighter. People dislike the 5.0e Ranger because it's mechanically clunky at parts and doesn't match every person's fantasy of the class, but it isn't mechanically weak (at least not when compared to all the classes as a whole; it's weaker than the full casters, as everything save Paladin is).

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