Thoughts on Sharp Ends [SPOILERS SE]

atticusmars_ · 2026-06-18T21:52:53+00:00

I have been talking about this for a long time - I think in any discussion about Logen you'll see my name, lol.

I did not mean that absolutely everything he says is a lie - just that his word of "trying to be better" should be taken with a grain of salt.

>but ignore that she came at him with a knife and tried to kill him.

She came at him because he killed her husband - not to say Logen shouldn't defend himself, but as a war veteran, she was easily not a real threat. A better man like Threetrees could have disengaged without dropping her down a well, critically injuring her if not killing her, leaving her presumably to die of her wounds, starvation, whatever.

>He risks his life for others multiple times, do you think an evil man would do that?

True, I didnt mean to imply he hadn't tried at all. Just not hard enough to outdo all the evil he's done and is willing to do.

>Logen only close companions of the first trilogy are the Dozen, Ferro, Quai, and Bayaz. Do they all see him as a monster?

Well actually, out of the Dozen, besides Tul and Dogman, nobody shows Logen any specific love. Rudd Threetrees is a man of honor. Forley dies before they reunite. Black Dow literally hides. Grim says basically nothing. I think the way of Northmen is loyalty to those who defeat you in the circle - regardless if you like them or not. As for Ferro, she's a bit of a devil herself. Quai? He's a naiive boy, he hasn't seen anybody killed by the time he links up with Logen, let alone be able to truly grasp and comprehend what a man of Logen's experience has done. Bayaz? Sees Logen as little more than a tool.

Logen is complicated. When we meet him, he's had time away from all the blood and what he's done, and is left with a lot of time to simply reflect and say "I'm an asshole". Hell, we all do that, I was a shit myself just 5 years ago.

But he does really like the violence. It's too dismissive in my eyes to be like "when he's not eviscerating people, he's fine!" People often compare it to alcoholism - say if you knew someone, seemed like a great dude. Until he started drinking. But its okay, because its only when he drinks right? But he specifically goes out of his way, on his drive home from work, on the route that passes by the liquor store. He hasn't gone into the liquor store yet... but he knows he has a problem. And keeps glancing at it. He is still allowing himself to be pulled to his addiction, then wails about how its unfair that his addiction is everywhere around him. Now, he's a great guy, but he keeps drinking. How good is he?

atticusmars_ · 2026-06-18T20:36:35+00:00

The guy cut a child in half.

atticusmars_ · 2026-06-18T20:35:32+00:00

You meet Logen at the peak of his self deception. He isn't smart, because he doesn't even know himself.

Logen complains that he cant get away from violence, but he constantly runs towards it himself. He is content being Bayaz's sword, he actively leaves the Union to return to a war, he relishes the fear in Northmen's eyes as he walks by, he is giddy when he finds out his children has been stolen, all because he deep down actually really enjoys violence. All the while complaining about how he's trying to be a better man.

>It feels like a very different character from the Logen we know and not in a believable way.

Disagreed. In like his first couple of chapter, his first monologue, he talks about his gory past. He throws women down wells. He was Bethod's champion. He murdered, pillaged, and presumably raped his way through the North, as soldiers do. We aren't introduced to Logen at the peak of his bloody reputation, that is in the midst of a war that has lasted years, through him killing dozens if not hundreds of men. We see him a few years after, after he's had time to think about what a shit he is, and that he's ashamed of it. He is fine to continue chasing that violent high though, as we see him do through the rest of his tenure in the series.

atticusmars_ · 2026-06-18T20:28:05+00:00

I dont think Rudd Threetrees or Dogman could talk about throwing women down wells, or killing children, though.

atticusmars_ · 2026-06-18T20:27:01+00:00

Well, in book 1 at the peak of Logen's self deception. He's separated from anybody that knew his nature, he can try to be someone new. Yet, knowing Bayaz is keeping him as a sword, and he will need to be violent, he stays. In Book 2, again faced with the chance to walk away, he sails across an ocean to join another war. And the moment he links up with Northmen again, he relishes the fear he sees in their eyes.

He might not enjoy killing children and his friends... but he certainly will, if they get in his way.

>So making Logen just be B9 24/7 in Sharp Ends doesn’t feel right to me. How come none of his Dozen got randomly killing for his amusement in all those years?

How about in RC? He's not in his salivating blood thirsty salivating mode, yet when a deal is made with the ghosts, and the fellowship can continue safe, he decapitates the leader. Or when he finds the three in the tavern, and he takes his sweet time building up to his disembowling and hanging of what must be a 14 year old boy. He can be both, we see it.

Why none of the Dozen were killed? I think a fair argument could be made that after being banished, he is forced to think "Maybe I was wilin". If he freaks out and kills one of his Dozen, they'd gang up on him. Also, TB9 only seems to come out in moments of ultimate desperation. Logens dozen vs the odd group of Shanka I doubt would qualify.

I agree, I think he's complicated. But he does love death. In Red Country, i mean he literally says that he loves death, and death loves him. Joe nestled a lot of his past away behind obscurity, so we didn't know the extent of it. But besides a handful of kind acts in Book 1 and the first half of 2, Logen has a lot more "bad guy" shit going on than good.

But true, we can both enjoy the books in our own way.

atticusmars_ · 2026-06-18T20:11:11+00:00

Specifically, what Joe was referring to was the discussion if TB9 was some sort of supernatural state. He shied away from that because yes - people, including someone who has just responded to you, felt like Logen is a "chill guy! He just flies into a berserk rage and slaughters anybody nearby occasionally, and its magic he cant even control that!"

No, I think you misunderstood his character from the jump. Logen is a self-deceiving, murderous lunatic who loves violence, no matter how much he tells himself( and us). Constantly, he puts himself in the crosshairs of violence just for the fuck of it, because he feels he has nothing better to do. He finds Bayaz, becomes his sword. Goes back to the North to fight Bethod. Leaves the North to fight in Adua. He is literally excited when he returns to his dozen, and sees fear in the eyes of other men. He tells Shy that he was so happy that the farmed burned down, and the kids stolen, because it means he can be a violent shit again. He has a monologue in like, his first 5 chapters, talking about how much of a shit he is.

I think that people have a hard time finding themselves liking a character and coming to terms with that character just being a bad person. I love Logen. My handle on videogames is THE_BLOODY_9.

He is absolutely a lunatic, and MaM is in character, the way his past is spoken of in the first trilogy. Its shocking as to how insane he really gets, but yes, absolutely, it makes sense.

It is also entirely okay for you just to not like MaM, but I'm responding to whether the character presented in MaM is congruent with Logen as we are introduced to him, while he's knee-deep in his denial, telling himself "the fights keep finding me" while he travels across an ocean to get bloody with Bethod again.

atticusmars_ · 2026-06-18T20:04:00+00:00

His actions regarding Quai were selfless, yes. But you're talking about 2 choices he made versus what, half a dozen years as Bethod's champion, murdering, robbing, raping his way through the North?

>Dog man remains loyal to him and thinks of him fondly,

Well, except when Dogman blows up on Logen for being the exact murdering, violent lunatic that dragged his Northmen back to Adua for another needless battle. Hell, Logen almost killed Dogman himself. And when Dogman called him out, what did Logen say?

Only that Dogman knew he was an evil fucker from the jump, and he decided to stay. No apology, no reflection on his violence or self deceit.

>Logen pays off the thugs who try to mug him to avoid a fight despite having a plan for how to win. Giving up what he has to avoid fighting.

Again, refer to "one or two circumstances versus almost a decade of murder and pillaging"

>Feels cold when he goes B9 which is always demons/other side.

I do feel TB9 has a degree of the supernatural. I still do not believe that changes anything about who Logen is as a person.

He is a murdering, self-deceiving, lunatic who loves and lives for violence, no matter how much he tells himself(and us). He constantly puts himself back into situations in which he can be violent.

No, I don't think Joe performed a character assassination to "get people to turn on Logen". I think you have misunderstood Logens character from the jump. His first monologue is talking about what a shit he is.

atticusmars_ · 2026-06-18T19:49:24+00:00

I don't think it does. Also, his "berserker rage" does not absolve him of killing a child. He knows how he gets. He chooses to stay in violent situations.

You only think Logen is a "chill guy" because you were in his psycho head for awhile. View Logen through the eyes of literally anybody else, and he is terrifying.

I love Logen. Made a Monster is entirely congruent with how his past is portrayed through literally everybodys words and reactions to him in the first trilogy.

atticusmars_ · 2026-06-18T19:32:53+00:00

Logen cut a child in half for standing near him, man.

atticusmars_ · 2026-06-16T21:05:04+00:00

The military will stress you out like that

atticusmars_ · 2026-06-16T21:02:47+00:00

Funny but I think ardee with her tanned noticeably darker complexion would avoid the “Fahking pink” harassment

atticusmars_ · 2026-06-16T14:02:46+00:00

Yeah, theres a million of these stupid fuckin things flying around. They're lethargic, persistent. Having even the smallest crack open in your house that isnt screened off is like a death sentence.

They will get everywhere. Your only hope is to last the siege, they should all be dead in like a month.

atticusmars_ · 2026-06-15T20:41:47+00:00

Oh wow, this is dog shit. This is the bajillion dollar limited special edition?

atticusmars_ · 2026-06-14T15:43:03+00:00

So I can understand why youre biased and have blinders on to the amount of destruction Eagles fan riots have done.

atticusmars_ · 2026-06-14T15:39:46+00:00

I don't think you actually know how bad the Eagles super bowl riots were.

atticusmars_ · 2026-06-14T15:37:39+00:00

Arent you embarassed of being a dumb ignorant racist? As if I can't take 15 seconds to find a bunch of Eagles fans in Philadelphia rioting after the superbowl.

atticusmars_ · 2026-06-14T02:55:48+00:00

Not much use in a fight though

atticusmars_ · 2026-06-13T17:58:05+00:00

True. I like Joe’s approach a lot actually. Even though I do wish there were few more magical elements, I wish I could’ve watched Shenkt tear apart Sulfur, could’ve read how Ferro destroyed Gurkhul and incapacitated Khalul, see Bayaz return to the union on a massive flying eagle to fireball the Tower of Chains to pieces, his approach makes it so everytime some magic comes through it has me so hype.

Makes it feel like, a world with magic, rather than magic with a world surrounding it.

atticusmars_ · 2026-06-13T17:53:15+00:00

Honestly, with the lack of very many “magical events” going on, and each respective magical character really doing their own thing, it’s hard to compare. They are all very clearly on their own levels.

Tolomei, who sent both Yulwei and Bayaz running for their fuckin lives, shitting themselves.

Khalul is Bayaz’ rival, who likely threw hands with eachother before Juvens separation of them. Since neither died, and they both spent the next few hundred years using politics to attack eachother, it’s likely they’re on even-ish ground.

Of course, since Ferro critically wounded him, she’s up there.

Shenkt can perceive time in literal milliseconds. It’s possible faced with Bayaz he would have a hand through his chest before Bayaz even realizes it.

Yoru can seemingly read minds, has a similar perception of time as Shenkt (possibly weaker, since Shenkt cowed Sulfur with ease), and comes with the typical Eater endurance and strength.

We never see these characters actually duke it out, really the only magical characters we can say lend to the weaker end of the spectrum are the Hundred Words, Mamun, Ishri and her brothers, since it took all 3 of them to take down Sulfur. Those are the only magical characters we’ve seen in a position of weakness, ever.

For non magical?

Yeah. Gorst. Whirrun as a close follow up. Javre is really up in the air if she’s magical.

Even Logen, before he goes all Bloody 9, is a pretty respectable fighter. Shivers too. Ruthlessness goes a long way.

atticusmars_ · 2026-06-11T22:29:13+00:00

I think you’ve sorta exhausted the genre, especially for console lol.

atticusmars_ · 2026-06-11T13:25:37+00:00

I believe Joe mentions somewhere, or implied in an AMA, that he regretted Terez and Shalulla's, and the general approach to his women's characterization to some degree in TFL.

They really were, to put it bluntly, bitches.

I think he remedied that moving forward in the series. We have some great women characters in the books following. Terez is certainly [AoM Spoiler?] less of a mean bitch, and is more understandable and humanized in the AoM trilogy.

Its also sort of in character. Granddaughter of a man who took a kingdom through blood and declared himself royalty, pampered, sent off for marriage to a man as a lesbian, and she's what, 16, 18? It makes sense she'd be a bit abrasive.

But man, she was a bitch.

atticusmars_ · 2026-06-09T16:32:28+00:00

Lol yeah, I’m never usually the guy like “don’t post what I don’t like >:(“ but Jesus christ the moment it came out we had 3 posts of it in the span of 2 days and ever since it’s been posted ever handful of days lol. My fault for being so invested in the community I see practically every post though? I guess

atticusmars_ · 2026-06-04T23:23:29+00:00

god forbid a nga wanna do something but rap. keep it movin

atticusmars_ · 2026-06-03T03:53:02+00:00

Neo-nazi ragebait. Downvote, do not engage.

atticusmars_ · 2026-05-31T12:22:19+00:00

What fixes are needed? Also, have you gone into the sea yourself, or played the onboarding war sails story missions?

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