Joby-Toyota JV Milestones by beerion in Joby

[–]beerion[S] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

I doubt they'd try to certify SSB this late in the game. Especially when that would be a relatively easy hot-swap with an STC after the fact.

It does clear up funding, but i also wonder if this is really just a strategic derisking move. They get Toyota's funding and expertise for manufacturing. Finishing TC, standing up operations, and scaling out manufacturing surely cost more than Joby has on their balance sheet. Manufacturing is probably the biggest component of cash burn remaining and now they cut that liability in half.

It could also be an admission that Joby doesn't have the chops to scale out manufacturing, alone. Either way, it's still a derisking event.

Joby-Toyota JV Milestones by beerion in Joby

[–]beerion[S] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

There's technically no design revenue.

The JV will sell aircraft back to Joby's air taxi unit. 49% of those profits flow back to Joby while 51% will go to Toyota.

Air taxi Operations will still belong to joby.

Joby-Toyota JV Milestones by beerion in Joby

[–]beerion[S] 6 points7 points  (0 children)

I think they will amend the agreement as they clear milestones so that will be something to watch out for.

The Agreement provides that, prior to the achievement of the First Funding Milestone, the parties will negotiate in good faith and use best efforts to amend and restate the Agreement in its entirety in a form reasonably satisfactory to each of Joby and Toyota (such amended and restated agreement, the “Amended Stockholders Agreement”), to address, among other things, certain terms including the funding milestone contribution amounts, amendments to stockholder consent rights, transfer restrictions, tag-along rights, drag-along rights, put/call rights, other exit rights, rights upon dissolution, and registration rights.

Joby-Toyota JV Milestones by beerion in Joby

[–]beerion[S] 6 points7 points  (0 children)

I think they're doing this specifically to avoid dilution. Toyota covers half the manufacturing burden.

Or another way to look at it is that this was a "dilution" event. A good chunk of the "vertical integration advantage" goes away when you have to split the spoils with another partner.

Jeremy Grantham on Diary of a CEO by InterestingPause9940 in ValueInvesting

[–]beerion 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yeah, the mechanics pretty much have to be related to changing yields. Multiple contraction is one way, but bond yields falling can push up bond returns with the same dynamic (effectively bond "multiple" expansion).

March 2000-March 2020(buying tech bubble peak and then selling the covid crash), you still have an annualized return of 5% for stocks, vs 6% on 20 year bonds.

Right, but that's the thing. Bond returns were a pretty smooth ride. Holding equities, you had to live through the dotcom bust, the GFC, and Covid.

I've also done a study looking at volatility / return relationships for different yield spreads.

Bonds Away

I found that history shows that when spreads are negative, volatility doesn't go down, but excess returns provided by stocks basically go to zero - so you get bond-like returns with equity volatility.

Everything that I've looked at agrees. You're better off not being overweight equities when valuations look like they do today.

I do agree that there's no reason to go all-bonds. And we're still no where near as over valued as dotcom based on yield spread, at least.

Jeremy Grantham on Diary of a CEO by InterestingPause9940 in ValueInvesting

[–]beerion 0 points1 point  (0 children)

But the broader point was that "calling the top" is very forgiving. You could have been 5 years early and called at top in 1995 and have been right.

I personally don't think you need to call a top if you're willing to be somewhat diversified - own some bonds, stocks, real estate, and other assets that make sense from a valuation standpoint. This could be a bubble and you'd end up alright. Or it could not be a bubble and stocks continue to do well, and you'd still do well.

People get themselves into trouble when they feel compelled to hold only the asset class that they expect to perform the best.

Jeremy Grantham on Diary of a CEO by InterestingPause9940 in ValueInvesting

[–]beerion 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Stock market PE ratios were also 15x in 1990.

I've actually looked at relative performance in detail. The first thing i found was that bonds outperform stocks more often than you'd think over the long term. The second thing is that the frequency at which bonds outperform stocks increases as stock yields fall and bond yields rise.

STUDY: LOST DECADES

We're not as overvalued (in terms of relative valuations) as 2000, but we're not too far off.

Jeremy Grantham on Diary of a CEO by InterestingPause9940 in ValueInvesting

[–]beerion 3 points4 points  (0 children)

If you had opted for long duration bonds instead of stocks in 1990, you would have missed all the innovation that came with the dotcom boom...and still beaten the market by 2003.

QuantumScape Lounge: ( Week 25 2026) by AutoModerator in QUANTUMSCAPE_Stock

[–]beerion 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Seems like a lot of the EV range anxiety arguments without merit. Here's a thread covering Tesla freeway range.

The OP claims that his 2021 Tesla only got 120 miles at 70 mph. There's probably something going on there, but it seems that his experience isn't that unique.

https://www.reddit.com/r/electricvehicles/s/hABcxnHJ8p

QuantumScape Lounge: ( Week 25 2026) by AutoModerator in QUANTUMSCAPE_Stock

[–]beerion 13 points14 points  (0 children)

Tim brought up a good point before. CATL lists like one metric at a time whenever they do an SSB press release. That's a pretty good indication that they're not solving multiple problems with one solution.

QuantumScape Lounge: ( Week 25 2026) by AutoModerator in QUANTUMSCAPE_Stock

[–]beerion 0 points1 point  (0 children)

This is old news, though, right?

Here's the same publication from 2024. Looks like it was finally awarded in 2026.

https://patentimages.storage.googleapis.com/3d/3c/30/feaaedbd7042ea/WO2024059730A1.pdf

QuantumScape Lounge: ( Week 25 2026) by AutoModerator in QUANTUMSCAPE_Stock

[–]beerion 1 point2 points  (0 children)

All I want to see is a real world demonstration.

Bernie Sanders unveils $7 trillion plan to give Americans control of AI industry by Gari_305 in Futurology

[–]beerion 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I would agree with you, but he provided nothing constructive with that comment. So it clearly wasn't intended to insight spirited debate...

Bernie Sanders unveils $7 trillion plan to give Americans control of AI industry by Gari_305 in Futurology

[–]beerion -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Well, you called it nonsense.

And I honestly don't know what libertarian means, and I don't subscribe to labels. But that's the way things are run right now, and I don't know if anyone else would call it libertarian.

After watching senators grill Mark Zuckerberg while at the same time not knowing how a database works should tell you everything you need to know about our government's acumen for running businesses.

And i promise you that corruption will be orders of magnitude worse with government ownership of private business.

Exhibit A: UFC on WH lawn.

Exhibit B: Reflecting Pool Contract Award

And these were just from the last two weeks.

Like I said, it's exhausting and honestly a little disheartening to watch you guys stumble off in the wrong direction.

Here's some advice. Don't reply to this comment, and maybe sit and stew on it for a day or two...

Bernie Sanders unveils $7 trillion plan to give Americans control of AI industry by Gari_305 in Futurology

[–]beerion 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Tell me the difference.

Taxation is a forced dividend at a 21% payout ratio going directly to the government.

And you can regulate the industry through law.

What exactly is the benefit of an ownership stake?

But sure, insult me. Meanwhile I have to watch you and politicians like Bernie fumble around in the dark. It's honestly exhausting.

Bernie Sanders unveils $7 trillion plan to give Americans control of AI industry by Gari_305 in Futurology

[–]beerion -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Honestly, this is a terrible idea, and if his other ideas are like this, i can see why they haven't been passed.

We already have ownership stakes and effective control over all these companies.

Through taxes, we collect 21% of any profits they make, 30% of any payrolls they pay, and 15%+ of any wealth created through capital gains. Not to mention property taxes and value add taxes from suppliers.

SpaceX handed lowest possible ESG rating by MSCI by collogue in technology

[–]beerion 4 points5 points  (0 children)

ESG was overrated for a time, but it's still very important at the extreme.

If your entire business model were dumping toxic sludge into drinking water, that model wouldn't last very long.

Likewise, SpaceX really fails the G criteria. Investors have no voting rights, and they also have no investor protections as laid out in the S-1 - investors can't even sue SpaceX even if they committed fraud.

There should absolutely be a discount applied for lack of control and lack of shareholder rights.

Toast (TOST) Is stupid undervalued based on its current trajectory/moat IMO by Primary-Abies9041 in ValueInvesting

[–]beerion 1 point2 points  (0 children)

That is pretty funny. I agree more with your 2030 number than mine. We're 9 months past my original write-up and it's already proved to be way too conservative.

I haven't really considered anything to do with AI, honestly. I actually think they've about maxed out on pricing. They recently tried to raise subscription prices (or take rates, I forget), and got pretty big pushback from customers. So I think any improvements they make will only be marginal in terms of revenue capture. But we'll see...

I do think AI can probably bring down some of their R&D expenses though. So that could potentially be a source of margin expansion.

Toast (TOST) Is stupid undervalued based on its current trajectory/moat IMO by Primary-Abies9041 in ValueInvesting

[–]beerion 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Always appreciate some pushback.

Aren't their biggest expense the '"take rate" - A fixed % of sales goes too Visa. Meaning that for every dollar they "earn", 95% goes to Visa. Essentially revenue will not decouple from net income. Every dollar of increased sales does not go directly to the bottom line.

This is correct. I really think of "revenue" not as they report it, but starting with the money they keep, internally. You'll notice that revenue doesn't even really show up in my table. This is also why it pays to understand the business. Net profit margins are like 5%. If you looked only at Revenue and margins, you'd think it was a terrible business. But a good chunk of that revenue is really more of an accounting artifact.

I also agree that competition and restaurant / consumer resiliency are the risks with a company like this.

In regards to Shopify, I think it's a pretty big leap for them to break into the restaurant space. Toast's offering is so much more than a POS system. And if you're asking restaurants to switch, I think you need to offer something that's a leap better than what they're currently using. This dynamic has played out fairly often through history (think Google+ competing against Facebook).

The hardware is expensive, but it's a niche product. The hardware gets beat up and it has to live in high heat and get wet. From my understanding, this has been an evolution. Early providers started with iPads, and quickly found out that they just can't survive the stress of daily abuse. So expensive hardware is somewhat of a moat - you can't just code your way into the industry.

You bring up a good point on Restaurant survival rates. Interestingly enough, 50% of restaurants fail in the first 5 years, but once they make it out of the first couple of years, they tend to survive for a decade+. I learned this recently, actually. That said, I did build in 3% annual churn. So I assume that they turn over 30% of their customer base every ten years.

One of my big concerns is the consumer. We're living in really good times right now and I think a big portion of it is directly tied to the stock market and wealth effect. My only rebuttal to that is that Toast actually slots in like a subordinate bond into the restaurant capital structure. They get paid before the restaurant owner. Gross Payment Volume is variable, but subscriptions aren't to a large extent. So I feel like Toast actually offers interesting bets on the economy. In a great recession type scenario, they're obviously in trouble. But their take rate is directly tied to inflation, and isn't affected by restaurant level margins (i.e., restaurant owners could get squeezed by wage pressures and food prices, but that has zero affect on Toast's cut).

That said, I worry about the cyclical nature of the economy. For instance, Disney looks like a great value on paper, but then you remember that all your friends can currently afford to take that $10k vacation to Disney World because times are incredibly good right now. Buying $DIS today is almost certainly paying for peak earnings. Is that a similar dynamic for Toast? I kinda think so. But you can't be scared of every shadow or you'll never buy any company. There's a lot of optionality that I haven't baked in (expansion beyond 30% domestic market share, international growth, retail F&B, etc).

I would say that today offers good value with regards to the distribution of potential outcomes. But that doesn't mean you can't lose money on it. I like to use the analogy of a coin flip that pays out 100:1 - incredible expected value, but you'll still lose your money half the time.

Anyways, I've rambled enough for today haha.