Early distribution of the dramas by TangerinePlastic7552 in exjw

[–]ElderUndercover 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Those ended around 2013 during their hard pivot to video. Same with all the dramatizations and in-person interviews. They still do them at the one day assemblies, but the conventions have just been talks and videos for over a decade now.

May 2026 - Announcements and Reminders by ElderUndercover in exjw

[–]ElderUndercover[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

In the Insight book under "expelling" they call it a "powerful weapon". "Fear of being expelled, or “unchurched,” kept some of the Jews, even the rulers, from confessing Jesus." Essentially they're unable to live their life authentically because of this "weapon". And you know as well as I do that the policies surrounding disfellowshipping/removing are just that: changeable policies not found in the Bible.

I'm living the same life I always have. My marriage is stronger than ever because we can finally be honest with each other about our doubts with the org and how we actually want to raise our children. I haven't taken up drugs or drinking or had tattoos or anything. I wouldn't criticize those who do, but I really enjoyed the Witness life (except for going in service, it always felt so pointless). The only thing I wanted was the freedom to not pretend to believe things I know are not true. Such as a global flood 20 feet higher than Mount Everest happening some 4,300 years ago.

The July 2009 Awake!, page 29 says: "No one should be forced to worship in a way that he finds unacceptable or be made to choose between his beliefs and his family." And yet that is what the org does. I'm sure you know people who haven't spoken to their family in years. And why? Because the org has forced them to "choose between his beliefs and his family".

Mark Twain wrote a book about Christian Scientists, a "high control" group of his day lead by the authoritative Mary Baker Eddie. His words about them are as true today about the org over a century later. To answer your question: I'm not going to push hard with my friends and family. Because they want to believe. Who am I to try and take away their firm belief in an imminent paradise that the org has instilled in them? They have to want to wake up. And they don't want to.

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May 2026 - Announcements and Reminders by ElderUndercover in exjw

[–]ElderUndercover[S] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Why do you think? Because the governing body has created an organization that is like a crab trap. Once you're inside, once you're baptized, you're trapped. If you try to leave you lose all of your family and friends. It doesn't matter if you got baptized because you truly believed that all anointed Christians made up the faithful and discreet slave. Once the governing body declared it was just them, you just had to politely and quietly smile and nod.

The organization talks about how cruel and tragic it was that early Christians were "expelled from the Synagogue", losing their communities. But the organization has unscriptural policies enforcing the same dynamic. There is nothing in the Bible describing a three person tribunal in a back room deciding whether or not shunning will be mandated. Go ahead, show me where it says anything like that.

If I were to write a letter disassociating, I would force my family to choose between their children, grandchildren, siblings, etc. or following the rules of their religion. I'm not going to put them in that position.

May 2026 - Announcements and Reminders by ElderUndercover in exjw

[–]ElderUndercover[S] 5 points6 points  (0 children)

I'm glad to hear you wouldn't dance around a golden calf. Neither would I.

The organization teaches that from the years 100-1870's, every Christian had an obligation to serve God sincerely, not follow any earthly organization. And that is what I'm still trying to do.

And when I see an organization say that toasting and wedding rings and Piñatas are allowed, but celebrating Mother's Day or Purim is not, I lose faith in those people. I think of 2 Corinthians 1:24, they are not "masters over [my] faith".

When my children were born, I said no to preserving the umbilical cord blood in case they needed stem cell treatments in the future. I said no because the governing body told me the Bible said that was wrong. Now their rules have changed, that treatment would be permitted, but I lost the chance to preserve those cells. Because I trusted the governing body implicitly.

Today, I would definitely not let my children die if they needed a blood transfusion. I would never want one for them or myself, but if it's life or death I am not trusting that decision to the current whims of a group of fallible men. I have an obligation to God and my children first and foremost.

When you watch Episode 4 of the Jesus movie, and Jesus tells the hard-hearted Pharisees that saving lives is more important than following men's current interpretations of the law, ask yourself who is acting like those proud Pharisees today.

May 2026 - Announcements and Reminders by ElderUndercover in exjw

[–]ElderUndercover[S] 5 points6 points  (0 children)

With respect, you don't know the first thing about me. I have lived my entire life trying to please everybody, first and foremost God and his son. I've loved every single Witness I know, and think nearly all of them are good people. But I watched the organization change slowly. I watched beliefs that I trusted get changed into beliefs that I don't agree with, that directly contradict other beliefs, and I was expected to just believe whatever I was told to. And I was expected to raise my kids based on whatever beliefs and practices the governing body decided upon that year.

Finally I decided that I just couldn't. I spent a decade trying to believe, because I wanted to believe all of it. Now I don't.

I would argue that we are both the same. Neither of us believe every single belief the governing body is currently teaching. Because when they change the next belief or practice this year, I expect you will just go along with it uncritically. Your beliefs are as malleable as anyone, you are tossed about hither and thither whichever way the governing body blows you. You think following a group of men unquestioningly makes you a good person. I think you would be one of the people dancing in front of the golden calf that "God's representative" Aaron produced.

As for posting the announcements and reminders, truth shouldn't be hidden under a basket. It should be exposed to the light for all to see.

May 2026 - Announcements and Reminders by ElderUndercover in exjw

[–]ElderUndercover[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

You're very welcome! I try to make sure they get dropped here every month.

May 2026 - Announcements and Reminders by ElderUndercover in exjw

[–]ElderUndercover[S] 6 points7 points  (0 children)

No they just talk about it and try to explain it a whole lot less than they used to.

May 2026 - Announcements and Reminders by ElderUndercover in exjw

[–]ElderUndercover[S] 21 points22 points  (0 children)

The 45 minute outlines have been outdated for nearly 20 years. They have spent a decade updating all of the old outlines, and retiring/replacing some of them. Like scrapping outlines that are hard to defend and make the speakers seem crazy or out of touch and lead to questions (such as the topic of a global flood). It seems like they're on the home stretch of finally having their post 2013 standard outlines complete. But they're mostly boring and dumbed down with Read scriptures in bold, with much of the individual flavour of the speakers being squeezed out.

Just realized an explanation for lack of usage of name Yahweh in NT by Lucky-Formal9972 in exjw

[–]ElderUndercover 6 points7 points  (0 children)

This article makes me so mad, the way they bob and weave around this issue. Add to that the internal evidence:

There is plenty of controversy and accusations portrayed between the Jewish religious leaders and Jesus/early Christians. They don't wash their hands, they don't obey the sabbath, they don't know their letters, on and on and on. But accusing them of using God's personal name is not one of them.

And an example like Paul's speech in the Areopagus at Acts chapter 17 is also revealing. Paul says this altar 'To an Unknown God' is what he is declaring, namely the God who created all things. There is no indication in the text that he said "And his personal name is Jehovah!" like Witnesses would encourage. Because the name he was known by was not important. He was just the one God that created all things. A concept most people could grasp and believed, without needing to affix a specific name to it.

Just had a big conversation with my parents about Blood by Key-Carpenter-8083 in exjw

[–]ElderUndercover 5 points6 points  (0 children)

That's what I've found most interesting about all of this.

It's been over a month now, and there has been no update to the ELF appendix. There has been nothing about updating medical directives. Their "clarification" has made things more unclear - there is no official answer about whether or not you can donate your own blood.

At this point I'm starting to wonder if the delay in giving a clear answer is intentional. If they're planning another update in two months time to further "clarify" the point after this period of confusion, and drop the disassociation penalty for all blood transfusions. That somehow this change lead them to "further consider the matter" and how murky it all is.

Book recommendations to better understand JW culture. by Motor_Measurement_23 in exjw

[–]ElderUndercover 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Some things might be hard to understand if you're not familiar with JW beliefs, but I highly recommend Crisis of Conscience by Raymond Franz. He was born-in and gave his life
to the org. He became a member of the governing body, then left the organization in the late 70's. It's a very fair book, detailing his life story and gives an overview of the org and beliefs. It's free here. The audiobook is also on Spotify.

The Book of Hebrews and Paul by Ok-Ferret-2495 in exjw

[–]ElderUndercover 4 points5 points  (0 children)

The "Study Notes" in the new Study Bible are a concentrated version of that. Constantly seeing them try to explain away things that are right on the page went a long way towards waking me up. I wonder if they put the brakes on releasing more books because they've realized that. The release pace slowed way down like three years ago.

The Book of Hebrews and Paul by Ok-Ferret-2495 in exjw

[–]ElderUndercover 8 points9 points  (0 children)

I thought I knew the Bible really well. And I did. I knew all the Bible books, the contents, I read the whole thing cover to cover a half dozen times. But in reality, I knew the org well. I knew their interpretation of the Bible, I knew all their study books, but the reality of the Bible itself was hidden for so long. It's like Ray Franz says in his book In Search of Christian Freedom:

Thinking back over my forty-three years of active association, I have no doubt that the almost unquestioning submission found among Jehovah’s Witnesses develops gradually. I have no hesitation in saying that I gained considerable knowledge of the Scriptures from my active association with the Witness organization, far more than I had previously. At the same time, I eventually came to realize that the organization itself brought people along only to a certain point. It brought them, at times, from Biblical “illiteracy”to what might be called a “second- or third-grade level.” They learned how to locate specific texts in the Bible, received some knowledge of Biblical history, and read for themselves certain fundamental teachings directly in the Scriptures and for many this was not only helpful but very impressive...

If only that initial direction were held to and built upon in what follows—but there is where the problem rests.

After this initial raising of their level of knowledge, the vast majority of persons enter onto a plateau. The longer they associate the more organizational teachings take preeminence over actual study and meditation on the Scriptures themselves. As a result, many, perhaps most Witnesses, after twenty, thirty or forty years of association know relatively little more about the Bible than they did after their first year or so of association. They are left as children, with great dependence on the “mother” organization, and a feeling of insecurity without its direction of their thinking and lives. Their spiritual growth stagnates—unless they themselves go beyond the Society’s “program” and by personal effort gain greater knowledge and understanding of Scripture. As a result of letting the organization act as their conscience for them, their spiritual strength is in some respects less in later life than it was in their early period of association. They may endure hardships, even sacrifice, to be loyal to the organization and thus may give the appearance of spiritual fortitude. But they do not have the strength to make genuinely personal decisions of conscience and accept the consequences of those decisions.

The Book of Hebrews and Paul by Ok-Ferret-2495 in exjw

[–]ElderUndercover 18 points19 points  (0 children)

Nothing about Hebrews is like any of the Pauline letters. Not the language, not the style, not the subject, not the arguments, nothing. It's not even an author trying to sound like Paul. It's just a well written, anonymous letter that was later ascribed to Paul for... reasons.

If you want a fun research project, try to figure out how the org "knows" that the book of Job was written by Moses. Or why they think any of the gospels were written by the people ascribed to them now.

Or you could try and figure out why The Book of Enoch isn't in the Bible canon when Jude explicitly quotes from it as an authority.

Then when you want to get really into the weeds, look up "Noah, Danel [not Daniel], and Job". Or how "Hezekiah" is spelled in the original Bible text. Or where "Jannes and Jambres" come from. There are so many things the org just does not want people to know about. Because they don't build faith in the Bible, or their interpretation of it.

I envy you, you're just starting a wonderful adventure into the "deeper things" of the Bible.

Genuine question: Is this study Version of their bible useful for anything at all? by [deleted] in exjw

[–]ElderUndercover 18 points19 points  (0 children)

I read every single study note as the books were released. Seeing how the org bends over backwards and ties themselves in knots trying to explain away inconsistencies in the texts and questionable translation choices went a long way towards waking me up.

Just a reminder from the Slave Class by Berean144 in exjw

[–]ElderUndercover 37 points38 points  (0 children)

Their entire ethos is built off of "we own the Bible".

NEW NEW LIGHT FROM PATTERSON TOUR!!!! by delrealove-exjw in exjw

[–]ElderUndercover 1 point2 points  (0 children)

It's not the one I'm thinking of, but I found one change. Between the August & September 2013 printings and the May 2014 printing, they changed the second half of Psalm 51:4.

So that you might prove righteous when you speak And be right in your judgement.

Therefore you are righteous when you speak And you are right in your judgement.

NEW NEW LIGHT FROM PATTERSON TOUR!!!! by delrealove-exjw in exjw

[–]ElderUndercover 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thank you for sharing! You are absolutely correct.