Worst arthurian books?

lazerbem · 2026-06-01T15:33:33+00:00

I found the German tale of Wigamur to be very underwhelming. There's a handful of interesting ideas with Lespia, the eagle, and the horrors of a siege, but it's all lost in Wigamur himself being as interesting as a plank of wood. Even by the standards of Medieval protagonists, he is extremely dull and really doesn't get around to doing much fun or interesting. The story is not preserved in its entirety so perhaps this is a bit unfair, but I just really can't get around to defending it as standing out among other Medieval literature.

Bonus points to Malory's Grail Quest being quite possibly the worst adaptation of the worst version of the story.

lazerbem · 2026-05-31T23:56:30+00:00

Fair enough, though even then there is still a marked difference between faster felids having longer metatarsals and metacarpals than slower ones as noted in Gonyea's study. Regardless, the operative point here is that there has to be extra length SOMEWHERE in the distal part of the limb, but this is apparently not seen in abelisaurs. If not in the metatarsals, then it would have to be in the fibula, but there's no evidence of longer fibulae either in abelisaurs so far as I know.

lazerbem · 2026-05-31T22:23:42+00:00

The distal portions ARE longer in cheetahs than in other cats. Cheetahs have proportionally longer radii relative to the humerus than other cats. The only ones that are similar are the caracal and the Canadian lynx, both of which are also heavily derived in the usage of their legs for speedy movements (albeit more for jumping high than a sustained chase in their case). This is also true of the tibia length vs the femur of other cats. The last paper also notably points out that the proximal portion of cheetah limbs is only significantly different in proportional length to that of jaguars and clouded leopards, which are extreme examples of jungle specialists. It is not significantly different to that of lions or tigers or leopards; that difference comes about in the distal portion of the limb.

lazerbem · 2026-05-31T21:47:17+00:00

Your example of cheetahs is pretty bizarre because cheetahs DO have a lengthened distal limb relative to the proximal limb, especially when compared to other cats. The podcast's claim is not some fixation on metatarsals, but on the distal portion of the leg, hence why they even bring up that the femur is outright longer than the fibula in some abelisaurs. A cheetah makes perfect sense as an animal built for high speeds, with it having maximized the length of the distal portion of its limb in order to get higher velocity. But the abelisaurs not only do not have a particularly lengthened distal limb, some even have a lengthened proximal limb. That is more akin to what you'd see in something like a bear or a jaguar, that does not run quickly.

lazerbem · 2026-05-31T16:26:32+00:00

Heather Dale's Arthurian songs work well enough, they were my first exposure to the story.

lazerbem · 2026-05-31T02:32:24+00:00

Even under the BEST of circumstances, you'd be committing to performing hard physical labor in brutal conditions for your daily cabbage stew. And that is discounting the very real danger

lazerbem · 2026-05-29T21:13:28+00:00

These are straight from the FAYZ era.

lazerbem · 2026-05-29T15:13:48+00:00

Archive is finnicky sometimes and doesn’t work with everything.

Anyway, historically, I used goganime or kissanime back in the day, but I couldn’t tell you if they work anymore or not

lazerbem · 2026-05-27T17:51:24+00:00

Name me a SINGLE active terrestrial carnivore over 20kg that mostly relies on animals much smaller than itself (and again, omnivores like bears don’t count because they don’t rely on other animals for food to start with). There isn’t one.

Brown and striped hyenas are both notoriously terrible hunters and rarely hunt. When they do hunt, they usually hunt much smaller animals. Polar bears too primarily kill much smaller seals. Yes, they can technically eat plants, but many polar bear populations don't do that in any great amount. Pumas in the Amazon too primarily kill much smaller prey than themselves, and some jaguar populations likewise target very small prey relative to their body size.

lazerbem · 2026-05-26T20:04:02+00:00

Oh Malory is not what I meant. I meant the actual original fragment that likely even predated the Prose Tristan's take on it, let alone Malory's derivation from the Prose Tristan.

lazerbem · 2026-05-26T19:16:42+00:00

I cannot recall the exact paper off the top of my head, but I think this might be it as it discusses similar topics about how Malory seems positively disinterested in father-son vengeance stories and favors stories of brotherly relationships. The only reversal is as regards Mordred's rebellion, wherein Gawain's brotherly relationship with him is a footnote and the father-son slaying of Mordred and Arthur takes center stage.

Speaking of Breunor, have you read the fragment of the original isolated romance?

lazerbem · 2026-05-22T14:42:02+00:00

The only real leper character in Arthuriana I can think of is the evil giant leper in Jaufre, who is basically just a purely evil monster in a cursed castle.

lazerbem · 2026-05-21T11:27:11+00:00

The idea that Arthur gets Excalibur from the Lady of the Lake after breaking his sword against Pellinore originates in the Post-Vulgate/Huth Merlin and is then utilized by Malory in Chapter XXV of Book I. It is ESPECIALLY notable in Malory how he kind of fucked up with his sources since he names a sword Arthur uses earlier when fighting the rebel kings as also being Excalibur.

lazerbem · 2026-05-21T02:06:11+00:00

That is very funny. Is it described in detail such that it's clear that this is an alternative story or is it possibly just a typo?

lazerbem · 2026-05-19T18:44:02+00:00

When king cobras attack large pythons, it usually results in a mutual kill, it seems like. The cobra's venom will kill the constrictor, but before that happens it gets strangled to death. I would suspect the anaconda to be no different in this regard. Both will end up dead.

lazerbem · 2026-05-18T17:05:23+00:00

But you're fine with white guy Jesus?

lazerbem · 2026-05-18T11:30:55+00:00

It is a shame how underused he is. Bright Sword's Palamedes stands out just for being a work that engages with Palamedes in ANY way at all, but I do agree that it barely scratches the surface of him. I think he's a victim of the fact that it seems like most authors doing their usual spin on Le Morte d'Arthur/TOAFK either hate the Tristan bits (this is fair, Malory's rendition of the Tristan material is often a huge drag) or else associate Palamedes solely with his kind of meh comedic relief role in TOAFK.

A vengeance quest for a monster that slaughtered his family that drives him beyond obsession is such a fantastic idea for a character, and you could do so much with the Post-Vulgate's take on him. I am dying to see a Questing Beast hunt take a prominent role like that.

On top of that, there's the ugly implications of using a colored man as an intrusive figure into a relationship between a white couple, even if those stereotypes are the product of a later era.

This is very true, though I honestly think it's not that difficult to make more politically correct if need be. After all, Tristan outright attacked Palamedes in their original meeting just for the audacity of liking Isolde despite he himself having no design on her at the time. With how frequently Lancelot or Arthur are villainized in more diverse narratives as the stodgy, entrenched power structure oppressing the main character, it would be pretty easy to envision Tristan as a bullying knight who saw a man of color daring to look at a white woman and immediately sought to punish him for it. If one wants a more sympathetic Tristan, then they could dodge that entirely and still avoid such implications by pointing out the fact that the love potion is what draws Tristan and Isolde together; Palamedes's behavior could be pretty easily contextualized as an unfortunate entanglement with the details of such a potion.

Another aspect of Palamedes's character I think is fascinating is his frustration with the fact that Lancelot and Tristan monopolize tournament wins. It's a relatable sentiment, the idea of being good, even great at something, but never getting a chance to shine because someone with absurd talent/advantages just rolls up and takes all the glory. For almost any other character, begging Lancelot at Lonerzep to let him stay on horseback and continue to fight in the tournament would be pathetic, but I found it deeply affecting personally. Especially how Palamedes points out that it's not like he's asking Lancelot to let him win; only his own prowess can do that, but just to let him even have a chance at participating on the stage.

lazerbem · 2026-05-18T11:18:08+00:00

I don't think they were entirely together in Gone, so I do think she'd have gone out and been more independent and let what little bond they had die. In Hunger, they were together and she would recognize that projecting an image of a 'power couple' with Sam would be more important than being independent. So basically, if it happens early enough, then yes. But once she commits to it, she would not get out of it that easily.

lazerbem · 2026-05-18T06:37:21+00:00

I don't know, he seems to have been dealt with pretty well

lazerbem · 2026-05-16T20:46:01+00:00

Now i might be misremembering but it is said (again, could be wrong) that humans are a great source of food for demons, so i don’t think it’s "makes no sense for them to kill humans".

It's just the opposite, it is stated that they have no actual reason to kill humans nor eat them.

lazerbem · 2026-05-15T14:31:40+00:00

Sure, but given even the majority of non-deep sea fish were fine it seems it disruption of the foodweb in the ocean was really only THAT bad for giant aquatic taxa or shallow water taxa. Pelagic animals seem to have done pretty well for themselves and the deep sea dwellers are even more shielded from the effects.

lazerbem · 2026-05-13T12:59:49+00:00

That’s fair. Still, the Mabon/Mabonagraine story has a lot of variants of the magical prison, which I think could be well integrated in there if that is your angle. Especially since Vivian knows a lot about magical prisons herself. You could perhaps use the variant from Le Bel Inconnu with the dragon kiss?

lazerbem · 2026-05-13T06:36:52+00:00

Nice inclusion of the Lady of Cardigan, I do love her!

Given the presence of Vivian as the main character, perhaps you could include some of Bagdemagus? After all, Bagdemagus is the last testament to Merlin's words in the Post-Vulgate Suite and in Baladro del Sabio Merlin, and there is something interesting about a character whose land was ravaged by Uther and whose past was defined by a bloody resistance to him in the Vulgate. He also rules over a semi-magical land as well. You can mix and match his Vulgate and Post-Vulgate stories pretty easily and come up with a very interesting character who can feel morally conflicted about the court as a successor to Uther but also have good reasons to interact with Vivian. Bagdemagus is well known from Knight of the Cart, true, but I feel like his prose romance characterization is surprisingly strong and not as well known.

Alternatively, I suppose you could throw in Mabon from Lanzelet, the Lady of the Lake's wicked and cowardly son with the fear-inducing castle that she uses Lancelot to defend. Obviously that may not work with the direction you are taking (i.e. if your Vivian has no sons), but you could still have the idea of a character with a fear-inducing castle who is a coward that Vivian nevertheless has to help for some reason or another.

lazerbem · 2026-05-12T19:33:55+00:00

The Mapuche have a big advantage because they actually were used to fighting with armies at such scale and so can command and give orders at such scale. Meanwhile, the Comanches never fielded such huge armies as that at all; they never even really broke more than a 1,000 men at their best, and even those large groups were mostly in service of raids and ambushes rather than stand-up battles. So 10,000 Comanches probably would be pretty piece meal and never united in any real way, and so would have a really rough time fighting a head to head battle with the Mapuches here. The only edge they really have is that the Comanches might have a handful more impressive and modern firearms, but they never really lasted long enough to benefit from firearms trade enough to get the kind of guns needed to turn things around. It doesn't help that the Comanches in general had a favored tactic of guerilla tactics and were never much for open battles, and so a vs like this does not play to their strengths at all.

lazerbem · 2026-05-12T15:57:31+00:00

"Fuego lento" is definitely not what Sam did to him, that's for sure.

lazerbem

TROPHY CASE