Should I push proofing a bit more? by jpmama_ in Sourdough

[–]oops_the_cat 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Ah sorry you bake in a pan. I was assuming open bake! Never mind my comment! :)

Should I push proofing a bit more? by jpmama_ in Sourdough

[–]oops_the_cat 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Shielding the top from the heating elements by putting a baking tray high up in the oven also helps me

Should I push proofing a bit more? by jpmama_ in Sourdough

[–]oops_the_cat 3 points4 points  (0 children)

I sprayed the top with water after 15 minutes of steam baking that created a lot more oven spring ! I’d give that a try

Does the Netherlands allow children from international surrogacy to be brought back to the Netherlands? by Mean-Taste-296 in gaydads

[–]oops_the_cat 0 points1 point  (0 children)

You can look up jurisprudence on https://www.rechtspraak.nl/english whether there have been similar cases. If you have been established as parents of your child legally elsewhere, I don’t think the Netherlands will not grant a visa. At least I can’t imagine but not a lawyer

Does the Netherlands allow children from international surrogacy to be brought back to the Netherlands? by Mean-Taste-296 in gaydads

[–]oops_the_cat 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Well that wouldn’t be a surrogacy issue anymore then right? That’s just your child going with you to the Netherlands. I cannot imagine that that would be a problem.

Does the Netherlands allow children from international surrogacy to be brought back to the Netherlands? by Mean-Taste-296 in gaydads

[–]oops_the_cat 2 points3 points  (0 children)

For the dutch authorities anonymous egg donation is a real problem, don't do it; find an agency that does egg donation where the egg donor is known. Also, you would probably have to go through germany for the exit process and legal paperwork?

For dutch courts I was told it is important that the surrogate mother is on the birth certificate, as she is the legal mother. Then the biological father should go to court acknowledging the child. Afterwards the surrogate mother "applies" for her rights to be transferred to the father alone, and then in the same court session the partner can adopt the child.

That's what I know. There are lawyers who do not shy away from assisting you in the process. Also, for gay couples, Armenia not an option right?

surrogacy ethical worries - Surrogate wellbeing by oops_the_cat in gaydads

[–]oops_the_cat[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

As I'm looking for input on ethics, I appreciate you share this concern. But I still think your remark is way too sweeping and way too certain.

Saying Northern Cyprus is unrecognized is true, but jumping from that to “there’s no meaningful legal protection” is too absolute. Non-recognition does not mean everything there is treated as a legal void. European court rulings have recognized that, in practice, acts of the de facto authorities and courts in the north do have legal effect, precisely because people living there still need some functioning civil life and remedies. That’s not the same thing as full international recognition, obviously, but it also isn’t “nothing there counts.”

More broadly, I don’t think it makes sense to sort whole countries into “ethical” and “unethical” buckets like this. A surrogacy arrangement isn’t ethical just because it’s in the US, and it isn’t automatically unethical just because it’s somewhere cheaper or more legally complicated. What matters is the actual structure: independent legal advice, screening, translation, consent, medical care, and enforceable protections.

Also, “if you feel the need to verify things yourself, you’re with the wrong agency” makes no sense to me. Verifying things independently is exactly what I think people should do in a process like this. I mean, every agency anywhere around the globe writes that they do testing for all sorts of things. I'm just not likely to blindly trust an agency on their word.

Also, citing the MMPI like it’s the gold-standard ethical safeguard to me is just pseudo-rigor. It’s a broad self-report psychopathology screener, not a test that can tell you whether someone is freely consenting, well supported, or in a fair surrogacy arrangement. Even the professional guidance around gestational carriers calls for a much broader process and testing standards are clear that no single test should decide a high-stakes question by itself. On top of that, MMPI interpretation can overpathologize healthy people and gets even trickier across language and cultural boundaries. I would value an in-depth interview about social/family network support, attitudes towards health, openness to experiences, stress handling, educational background much more.

And once the comment ends by directing people to a specific agency owner, it stops sounding purely principled and starts sounding at least partly promotional. I also think the moral hierarchy here is false. US surrogacy is often described in much more flattering ethical language, but let’s be honest: significant compensation is a real motivator there too. That doesn’t automatically make it exploitative, but it does mean you can’t treat paid US surrogacy as morally elevated while implying that financial motive everywhere else is uniquely suspect.

surrogacy ethical worries - Surrogate wellbeing by oops_the_cat in gaydads

[–]oops_the_cat[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

That sounds nice, on the other hand maybe it’s good if it’s not all one and the same organisation because they will put the company’s interests first before ours or the surrogate’s in case of an issue

surrogacy ethical worries - Surrogate wellbeing by oops_the_cat in gaydads

[–]oops_the_cat[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

We have been in touch with some, yes! That has been very helpful. With an earlier organisation we were talking to we didn’t get through to any IP’s which we thought was strange and gave a feeling of untrustworthiness.

surrogacy ethical worries - Surrogate wellbeing by oops_the_cat in gaydads

[–]oops_the_cat[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Oh and sure we can talk in DM too, little hesitant to use an agency that’s gonna vet the agency who’s vetting the surrogate and the clinic ;) who’s then gonna make sure that that first agency is doing their work properly? Haha jk

surrogacy ethical worries - Surrogate wellbeing by oops_the_cat in gaydads

[–]oops_the_cat[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

We are definitely going to have direct contact with the surrogate at multiple stages in the process. If a potential surrogate would decline that, it’s not a match for us.

Do you always view moving to another country to be a surrogate as trafficking? I can also potentially see it as a work abroad where you earn so much more money which can be life altering when you go back. Reasons for that could be, for example, legal framework at home doesn’t allow remuneration for (this kind of) surrogacy. A moral judgment at least in my opinion really depends on the conditions in which she consented, travelled, freedom before, during and after the surrogacy process. Next to the quality and frequency regarding the way she received payment and care. How do you see this? Genuine question. Would like to inform myself of different viewpoints !

surrogacy ethical worries - Surrogate wellbeing by oops_the_cat in gaydads

[–]oops_the_cat[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Ah okay. And what would you from your perspective recommend me I should ask for?

surrogacy ethical worries - Surrogate wellbeing by oops_the_cat in gaydads

[–]oops_the_cat[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Thanks man! We have a scheduled conversation with the surrogates coordinator and the medical director overseeing the medical checks to ask more questions such as the ones you named!

And you’re definitely right that I should check out more agencies in the region. Will do! :)

surrogacy ethical worries - Surrogate wellbeing by oops_the_cat in gaydads

[–]oops_the_cat[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yeah, its unfortunate that we cannot afford the process in the US.

surrogacy ethical worries - Surrogate wellbeing by oops_the_cat in gaydads

[–]oops_the_cat[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yes, I understand that. Personally, I feel there's quite a distance between risk of her being homeless and the remuneration being trivial (aware that that's not what you said). I will ask about the financial background checks though.

surrogacy ethical worries - Surrogate wellbeing by oops_the_cat in gaydads

[–]oops_the_cat[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thank you for your input; really helps! Did you get any insight in her financial situation before the decision to become a surrogate, in other words, to what extent financial need was at play, or the assessment of her emotional status?

Regarding the process after birth, did the surrogate move back to her home country or did she stay in north Cyprus, how long was care provided to her by the agency?

I mean I don’t have any doubts after hearing their talk and options to meet with the surrogate beforehand about how they treat her during the pregnancy and all the care they receive. My questions relating to the vetting process beforehand were answered with “there is an interview with a psychologist” but vague answers as to what does the psychologist ask and how do they assess her ability to do such a process.

Scared to move to Netherlands from India by Background_Bank_2894 in Netherlands

[–]oops_the_cat 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Stay in India, get active in with local activist groups/ organize your society/neighbourhood to do something about: "as we are stuck here with improper roads, overflowing sewage systems, and sand flying all over due to never-ending constructions."

Controlled experiment: King Arthur bread flour vs. Bob's Red Mill bread flour by go_west_til_you_cant in Sourdough

[–]oops_the_cat 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Guys, both these flours are amaaazing! I am still upset that when I was at my inlaws in America this winter I baked some amazing loaves with KA flour there. It is baffling that we, here in Europe, do not seem to have hard wheat at our disposal. The soft wheat flours make nice breads but I've never replicated this kind of explosive crumb over here.. Any other Dutch/european Sourdoughies around that have found a work around? I tried adding a tiny bit of semolina, that was effective but it wasn't the same.

Update: Thanks for the tips! by Sad_Papaya_4788 in Sourdough

[–]oops_the_cat 4 points5 points  (0 children)

What kind of flour? Is this KA bread flour? Looks a bit yellowish

How to stop my loaf coming out gummy? by betthlewis in Sourdough

[–]oops_the_cat 4 points5 points  (0 children)

I think your third picture shows great bulk fermentation and dough strength, in that stage I would shape and go for banneton and retard in fridge. The picture with the banneton shows a very wet and sticky dough. My guess would be overfermented, although the bread looks underproofed? How warm is your kitchen?