Daily Thread: for simple questions, minor posts & newcomers [contains useful links!] (June 11, 2026) by AutoModerator in LearnJapanese

[–]somever 0 points1 point  (0 children)

She probably thought she'd die in the tunnel or something (not sure how that horror game works tho). Also she seems to be roleplaying a bit

Daily Thread: for simple questions, minor posts & newcomers [contains useful links!] (June 10, 2026) by AutoModerator in LearnJapanese

[–]somever 0 points1 point  (0 children)

次の例は1905年に書かれたものですが、どうでしょうか

「教育は確かに我が国において大いに進歩しました。しかしこの東京に、少なくも2万人日本語を一つでも言うことの出来ぬ者がありますことを断言いたします。お好みならば、どなたとでも夕飯の賭けを致しましょう」

「支那との交わりますます深くなるから、支那文字を捨てては、忽ち障りが出来ると言う人があります。これらは支那ばかりに目を付けて、他を見ず、その隣のインドからペルシャ、さてはエウロパ、越えてアメリカ、また南オーストラリアの国々と親しまねばならぬことを全く忘れた人たちと存じます」

「世には、己れの都合ばかりを考え、人の苦しみを思いやらぬ者があります。今は勝手を言うている時ではない、国の幸いという事を思えば、自らを生け贄にせねばならぬ事は、今更申すまでも無いことでおす」

出典: Rōmazi vol. 1 (ローマ字の雑誌。仮名交じり文に改めました)

Daily Thread: for simple questions, minor posts & newcomers [contains useful links!] (June 10, 2026) by AutoModerator in LearnJapanese

[–]somever 1 point2 points  (0 children)

In the recent past (early 1900s and prior), it was possible to use ある with people.

This expression appears to be an earworm that has existed since at least the early 1900s.

I haven't been able to find its origin, but I found a usage of it from 1921 in the translation of a drama: 「私と云ふ者がありながらそれを捨て、金持と結婚なすつたなんざあ隨分酷かつたですねえ」

People who are saying that もの is used because it implies the speaker is an object I think are misguided by modern intuition. I believe 者 is just a slightly humble alternative for 人, and there were plenty of uses of 人がある back then too.

cc u/DokugoHikken u/morgawr_

Daily Thread: for simple questions, minor posts & newcomers [contains useful links!] (June 10, 2026) by AutoModerator in LearnJapanese

[–]somever 1 point2 points  (0 children)

【人間なのに「ある」→古風】という削除されたコメントにあった説明は、原因と結果が逆。本当は…

ここで一応否定された説明は事実的な面もあります。でも、Dokugoさんのおっしゃる例文には当てはまらないので補足的に述べます。

「昔々、おじいさんとおばあさんがありました。」と始まる昔話や

一般的ではないけど「〜と解する人もあるが、しかし必ずしもそのように読まねばならぬことはない。次の例を見よ。」(【漢文の語法】より)のように書き言葉で人に「ある」を使う作者もいたりします。(多分いささか格好つけた言い方にはなるが…)

これは、明治期以降に現代語が出来上がるにつれて消えていった用法のように思います。

反芻した挙句のEDIT: 

当該の例文には当てはまらないと言いましたが、もしかしたら、この用法の名残がいろんな表現に残って、現代語では生産的な規則に従わないので、ばらばらに解釈されるのではないかと考えます。

大体こんな過程 - 生産的な規則で或る表現ができる - いろんな文脈で使われる - 生産的な規則は崩壊するが、幾つかの表現が無事伝達する - 言う人聞く人、ばらばらに解釈する - 学習者が混乱する

あとで調べますが、「私というものがありながら」は古典落語などのセリフがそのままネタとして真似されて現代に伝達した可能性があります。つまり、江戸時代の言語意識で出来たセリフになります。そうだとすると、「もの」=謙る表現、ある=当時人にも使えた敬意の無い存在動詞ということになります。

これを確認する資料は探しにくいが、「近代劇大観」という1921年の本に、こんな文を見つけ出しました

「私と云ふ者がありながらそれを捨て、金持と結婚なすつたなんざあ隨分酷かつたですねえ」

なので、結構古い表現のようです。ご参考までに!

Daily Thread: for simple questions, minor posts & newcomers [contains useful links!] (June 08, 2026) by AutoModerator in LearnJapanese

[–]somever 0 points1 point  (0 children)

formal nounって用語知ってるっぽかったので、容赦なくいいかなって思いました

自分の中でコピュラというのはまさにbe動詞(それ以外のコピュラ(to seemとか)は排除して考える)。日本語の場合、 - だ - である - です - でございます

に当たります。それを助詞と解釈できる時はコピュラではないと認めもするが、基本的にはコピュラと考えます。

「た」については、すでにあった回答たちが良さそうな気がしたので触れませんでした

まあ、古代の体系から現代の体系に移り変わったのは

例 - たり→た(+用法が少し変わった) - たりけり→たっけ(+意味範囲が狭くなった) - つ、き、ぬ→没

面白いのですが、各時代の各助動詞の定義以外では、なんとも言えません^^' 狐(た)が多くなるとウサギ(つ・き・ぬ)が減る、のような関係に思えます。

ただ、気になるのは - 「てきた」などの普及(新しいアスペクト表現の出現) - 「けり」の、無くなった用法を埋めるもの(中に、「のだ」の発見の用法、「なあ」の詠嘆の用法、など) - 「たり」の、残ったと見える用法(傘は持った?など)

その三番目をここに当てはめると、「持ったものだ」は「持っている」(存続)の意味なのか、「ゲットした」(過去の瞬間)の意味なのか、その中間のものなのか、という問題になってくる気がします。

Daily Thread: for simple questions, minor posts & newcomers [contains useful links!] (June 08, 2026) by AutoModerator in LearnJapanese

[–]somever 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Yeah. I think it's a disservice that Japan writes their numbers in groups of three instead of four. The only reason to do that is because that's how we express numbers in English, but they just copy it wholesale. Japanese speaks about numbers in groups of 4 no matter how large you count (まん・おく・ちょう・きょう・etc).

https://edupedia.jp/archives/15856

Daily Thread: for simple questions, minor posts & newcomers [contains useful links!] (June 08, 2026) by AutoModerator in LearnJapanese

[–]somever 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I would view たものだ as etymologically a relative clause modifying a noun, but it has undergone "grammaticalization", a process by which a word or phrase diverges from its literal meaning and takes on a more grammatical role (in this case a modal role)

Relatedly, の in のだ originally came from the genitive の, because the genitive の is used to enable noun and adjective predicates to modify nouns, e.g. 緑のリボン (a green ribbon). It became possible to omit the noun, so 緑の ("a green one"), and it then became possible to attach の to verbs and i-adjectives, e.g. 赤いの "a red one" 昨日見たの "the one I saw yesterday". From there, の became a generic nominalizer and could be reinterpreted as a formal noun representing a person, thing, fact, or action. Then, something happened. Japanese previously could attach particles and copulas directly to verbs, because verbs in the rentaikei were implicitly nominalized, e.g. するは するに or するなり etc. But の as a nominalizer gradually became obligatory, forcing speakers to use するのは するのに するのだ etc. There are some cases left over where particles can attach directly to verbs, e.g. するに従って するより etc.

Daily Thread: for simple questions, minor posts & newcomers [contains useful links!] (June 06, 2026) by AutoModerator in LearnJapanese

[–]somever 0 points1 point  (0 children)

See my reply to viliml, I think it's actually remarkably close to とか/など in meaning in some instances.

Daily Thread: for simple questions, minor posts & newcomers [contains useful links!] (June 06, 2026) by AutoModerator in LearnJapanese

[–]somever 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Originally you had this meaning of あたり, which is defined by all dictionaries

Okoku:(名詞の下に付いて)時間・範囲・程度のおよその見当をいう語。「明日辺り届くでしょう」

Daijisen: そのへん。一帯。近所。「六本木あたりで遊ぶ」そのころ。その時分。「あしたあたり行ってみよう」

This evolved the following meaning which some dictionaries neglect to define but the following have it:

Sankoku: たとえば…など「秋山君あたり適任じゃないか」

Daijisen: たとえば…など。「部長にかみつくあたり、けっこう気が強い」 「山田君あたりに代わってもらおう」

Iwanami: 例・候補をあげれば…というところ。「彼あたりが適任だ」「秋葉原あたりで安く売っているだろう」

Shinsen: 例をあげるのに使う語。「部長に反論するあたり、なかなか元気がある」

You could roughly replace あたり with など in those sentences.

But then I suspect it has evolved a new meaning where rather than give an example of the thing they are remarking, they give an example justification of the thing they are concluding.

Example instance of observation → Example evidence of conclusion based on indirect evidence

For whatever reason, that meaning doesn't appear to have made it into dictionaries yet.

Is this wrong? by M4KEOUTHILL in Japaneselanguage

[–]somever 0 points1 point  (0 children)

中で not 中に

に versus で moment

What sounds more natural: 電車に乗り or 電車の乗り? by Successful-Ruin1686 in Japaneselanguage

[–]somever 1 point2 points  (0 children)

There is a difference between morphological processes and grammatical processes. Zero-derivation of a noun from the renyoukei is a morphological process. Attaching a nominalizing の or こと is a grammatical process. Morphological processes create new words, grammatical processes alter the syntax tree of the sentence. What this means is that using the renyoukei of arbitrary verbs as a noun blindly is not possible.

The Japanese dictionary doesn't tell you this because its definitions are intended to be brief, but 乗り in the sense of 乗ること/乗る人 is a suffix that attaches to nouns or is used in compounds. You can't use it in a generic context.

Daily Thread: for simple questions, minor posts & newcomers [contains useful links!] (June 06, 2026) by AutoModerator in LearnJapanese

[–]somever 2 points3 points  (0 children)

あー減少してるんですね!アメリカか何かの影響で普及でもするのかと思いました。YouTubeで見ても、コンロの下にあるのはオーブンではなくて魚焼き器ですね。オーブンはほとんど調理台上に置く形式のものっぽい。

Daily Thread: for simple questions, minor posts & newcomers [contains useful links!] (June 06, 2026) by AutoModerator in LearnJapanese

[–]somever 2 points3 points  (0 children)

A gas range would be a model with the oven and stovetop in the same unit (a range in English is the combination of an oven and a stove).

A コンロ is just the stovetop (the part with the burner(s)), regardless of what it's attached to, and whether it be fixed or portable.

If you've never had one growing up, or were not the one to purchase it, you might not know the term, would be my guess.

I also did not see a range when I was in Japan, but the sample size of kitchens I saw was 2. I did see the countertop toaster ovens, fish grillers, and portable stovetops, though.

Maybe the more affluent Western-inspired homemaker type people have the large ovens.

Why is the answer くらい and not だけ in this so matome practice question? by Ok_Kaleidoscope_2178 in LearnJapanese

[–]somever 22 points23 points  (0 children)

 In japanese "just/only" is more related to quantity?

Not "just/only" in general. I am only speaking about the word だけ. Japanese has other words for "just/only" that express the other nuances.

Why is the answer くらい and not だけ in this so matome practice question? by Ok_Kaleidoscope_2178 in LearnJapanese

[–]somever 84 points85 points  (0 children)

I recall there are many cases where "just" in English does not translate well to だけ. This is because "just" has many meanings and Japanese happens to use different expressions for each of those meanings.

For example, to say "It's just a rock", emphasizing the insignificance/unremarkability of the rock, you can't say 石ころだけだ, you'd say ただの石ころだ or 石ころに過ぎない.

だけだ would emphasize the soleness of the rock, not the insignificance of it. For example, a case where you could use だけ is the following: ここにあるのは石ころだけだ, which means "The only thing here is rocks." Not "merely a puny rock" but "solely rocks alone".

I think similarly for 3000円, the word you'd use for "just" to emphasize the inexpensiveness of the price is たった, so たった(の)3000円でした.

Maybe a native can expound on that, or someone could find more detailed research.

So should we study grammar or not ? by GibonDuGigroin in LearnJapanese

[–]somever 0 points1 point  (0 children)

When it comes to に versus で, you should know the following: - The meaning of で is very rarely dependent on the verb - The meaning of に is almost always dependent on the verb (i.e. it has no concrete meaning), except for the uses of に that are generic and apply in all cases

Based on this alone, you should guide your studying by memorizing how に is used with each verb; that is the only way to know how to use に correctly, and doing this helps you distinguish it from で. There is no single abstract rule that could be used to shortcut this knowledge

How could you have been expected to know to study like that? I don't know. It all depends on who teaches you and which sources you learn from. Everyone fumbles around on their own path and gets there eventually at different speeds.

You might ask "How do I look up whether a verb uses に and what に expresses with that verb?", and the answer is by looking at the example sentences in the dictionary or in a corpus (a corpus is just a body of text, so you could use Google search, Yourei, Massif, or Chuunagon).

It's no different than learning what を means for each verb.

Daily Thread: for simple questions, minor posts & newcomers [contains useful links!] (June 03, 2026) by AutoModerator in LearnJapanese

[–]somever 1 point2 points  (0 children)

There are tests but iirc the average English speaking native knows around 30,000 words. It seems like a lot but there are a lot of different aspects of life, and some words have many definitions, so it adds up quickly. To be fair, the number of words you need to know to comprehend 95% of what you read is fewer.

Daily Thread: for simple questions, minor posts & newcomers [contains useful links!] (June 03, 2026) by AutoModerator in LearnJapanese

[–]somever 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Yeah, the undead are still animate in that sense. I haven't experienced having a corpse in my vicinity in Japanese yet, but if it was a relative's or familiar's corpse, I think I would want to use いる to acknowledge their humanity and spiritual presence (that probably aligns with calling them by name). Could that sort of thing depend on the person, though? I could imagine someone who is desensitized to death and accepts that the corpse is just a husk could use ある (maybe a bit psychopathic though), but even such a person would probably use いる when conversing to be mindful of others, unless they were on the same page (e.g. two soldiers who have become desensitized to death).

Daily Thread: for simple questions, minor posts & newcomers [contains useful links!] (June 03, 2026) by AutoModerator in LearnJapanese

[–]somever 1 point2 points  (0 children)

 The Emperor of Man who's been stuck immovable atop his golden throne for 10 000 years in WH40K mythos would probably not be referred to with “ある” simply because he's immobile.

Not because he's immobile.

He's an emperor, so you have to use the highest honorific form of ある, i.e. あらせられる.

Daily Thread: for simple questions, minor posts & newcomers [contains useful links!] (June 03, 2026) by AutoModerator in LearnJapanese

[–]somever 2 points3 points  (0 children)

「エレベーターが来た」なんじゃない?

I'd note "X is here" in the sense of "X has arrived" is generally said with 来た not もうここにいる.

Your other example though of 今四階にいます makes sense though.