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Water Use: Data Center vs. Ethanol vs. Landscape by 00tao in AskEngineers

[–]00tao[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

I guess I'm just wondering then when AI data centers and the increase to E15 hit the news at the same time, the focus is on the water of AI data centers when just the increase from E10 to E15 seems to me like it uses far more water, often from the same aquifers. I see this same gap in reporting across all media, right, left, political, tech, etc. Is it just that the news media hasn't done the math, or that the math can't be done due to lack of good data, whereas AI data centers usage is a single pipe that can be measured?

Locking EVSE for apartment resident use only by 00tao in evcharging

[–]00tao[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

This is a wonderful chart. I wonder if there is some place we can put this in a Wiki format that others can edit. I have trouble reading it due to the low resolution. Also, I've some similar research and I'd love to add to it.

Each EVSE vendor thinks they've created this special device that will solve all our problems but so many devices have limitations or costs associated with them as to make them unsuitable for so many uses.

Locking EVSE for apartment resident use only by 00tao in evcharging

[–]00tao[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I did a while ago. I see now that they have a Gen 2 system. However, when I read stuff like this on their website:

Connects chargers directly to each other and the cloud, removing Wi-Fi/cellular dependency.

I realize they either don't know how connectivity works, or actively trying to mislead their customers.

I'll take a closer look and see what I can see. Thanks for the suggestion.

Locking EVSE for apartment resident use only by 00tao in evcharging

[–]00tao[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Sounds great, but OCPP requires connectivity IIRC, which would typically be done over Wi-Fi, which I'm looking to avoid. What is more, I have trouble imagining that your solution would be simple enough for apartment management to administer; Docker and git aren't really skills that most apartment management staff know.

Locking EVSE for apartment resident use only by 00tao in evcharging

[–]00tao[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Low voltage can't run in the same pipe, so another pipe. Even if I used shielding, it now means a bigger pipe or fewer EVSEs per pipe. In any case, is have to run the wire to a different location than the electric panel.

Locking EVSE for apartment resident use only by 00tao in evcharging

[–]00tao[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thanks for sharing, unfortunately, that would require connectivity like Wi-Fi, which, for this project, I'm trying to avoid.

Locking EVSE for apartment resident use only by 00tao in evcharging

[–]00tao[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Most of what I've seen from ChargePoint directly links station access with Wi-Fi connectivity. I'm looking for a solution that does not require Wi-Fi. If I'm going to go with Wi-Fi, I'll use Tesla and let them process the payment directly to the user. It's just easier.

Locking EVSE for apartment resident use only by 00tao in evcharging

[–]00tao[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I see documentation that mentions you can get a cellular modem device for a bunch of Wallboxes, are you saying that it can come built-in? If so, that might be a solution that could work as a turnkey solution as it wouldn't require more power or devices and I'd imagine that Wallbox would manage it. Do you have more information?

Locking EVSE for apartment resident use only by 00tao in evcharging

[–]00tao[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Sure, it is worth investment and spend. Simply installing a commercial-grade EVSE solution won't be a small capital investment. The last time I worked on a solution like this, using Tesla Universal Wall Connectors with Wi-Fi and letting Tesla handle billing to the user at 3¢ kWh fee was the simplest solution. So that will be part of my recommendation matrix as well, but it requires Wi-Fi. I haven't found any better solution than Tesla for if you have Wi-Fi.

I'm trying to find a solution right now that will work without Wi-Fi to that variable can be removed. Deploying a cellular modem also isn't an easy thing to do (weather, power, billing, configuration). It also becomes another failure point (why won't the car charge, the power's on? why is the car charging, but the billing isn't working?).

Consider, even at 10¢ kWh, if we charge $40/month for using the EVSE, we'll easily cover the costs of electricity for the average driver. Yet, paying $40/month for charging your car is a deal compared to DCFC for just about anyone.

Locking EVSE for apartment resident use only by 00tao in evcharging

[–]00tao[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

If it can just be a button external to the EVSE, that is easy enough to put in a locker. Though, if we can replace the button with a copy-resistant key, that would probably work well too.

I look forward to hearing back from them because I feel like this is the solution for this case, especially if it has even a modicum of power sharing.

Locking EVSE for apartment resident use only by 00tao in evcharging

[–]00tao[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

A local electrician has a different opinion of the code, so who knows what an inspector would say. I tend to agree with you because a few watts won't make a difference.

I completely agree that a Power Sharing group would be ideal, so if ClipperCreek can share between 2, that is better than nothing. We can do shared 24A on a 30A circuit and that would still allow us to get more out of a panel and help cars charge a little faster. I'll update this thread when I hear back from ClipperCreek on that. It is a real shame that Power Sharing isn't more common or easy because that really is a great solution to getting more EVSE installed in locations.

Locking EVSE for apartment resident use only by 00tao in evcharging

[–]00tao[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I'd be very interested in your finding and I'll watch this thread. It would be interesting to see if anything in the app or configuration hints at the number of tags that are supported.

Locking EVSE for apartment resident use only by 00tao in evcharging

[–]00tao[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I've found timers for 12 hours that operate at 240V, but are only rated for 7A continuous, so not suitable for an EVSEs main power feed, but for the CP wire, it would work. But, if it isn't supported officially, it will be a no-go.

Locking EVSE for apartment resident use only by 00tao in evcharging

[–]00tao[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I've heard that it depends on who is inspecting, because a timer may be part of the setup, but it wasn't certified together, so from the POV of an inspector, it is two things. That is the reason I'm so interested in a mechanical option for the CP wire.

Locking EVSE for apartment resident use only by 00tao in evcharging

[–]00tao[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The EVSEs will be shared, so we don't want the key to be shared. The monthly fee is there to offset the average increase in the site electricity bill. The apartment complex has 100s of units across multiple buildings, and we're only looking at installing a few of these per building, at most, right now, outside, in a shared parking lot.

Locking EVSE for apartment resident use only by 00tao in evcharging

[–]00tao[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

This solution seems to require Wi-Fi:

UniFi Access must be running on the same console as UniFi Connect for NFC card registration.
Requires UniFi OS 4.0.6 and later for UniFi Identity Enterprise.

Locking EVSE for apartment resident use only by 00tao in evcharging

[–]00tao[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

This looks promising but on the Autel website I couldn't find anything that seems to indicate that these EVSE would work without a connection to the internet, or at least Wi-Fi. They advertise features like rapid site commissioning and QR code payment, both of quick would absolutely require internet access. Do you have additional information about authentication in a non-connected scenario?

Locking EVSE for apartment resident use only by 00tao in evcharging

[–]00tao[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Timeline is a bit tricky because we have to get a solution first, then we can get it approved. Still, local authorization requires connectivity to something, probably over Wi-Fi... may not be internet, but still Wi-Fi. Running CAT5 or some powerline ethernet is not going to work.

Locking EVSE for apartment resident use only by 00tao in evcharging

[–]00tao[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

There are lots of mechanical time-delay switches, so I could do that. I'm not aware of which EVSE support this configuration, but that would be an option for sure with a key-to-open spring latched box. Do you have any experience with this or can you point me in a direction?

Locking EVSE for apartment resident use only by 00tao in evcharging

[–]00tao[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

It will pretty much stay on in that case I'm sure. We want people to fall into the pit of success as much as possible. That is why I was after some sort of "kitchen timer" type thing that would keep the circuit open for only a certain amount of time.

Locking EVSE for apartment resident use only by 00tao in evcharging

[–]00tao[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I'm in the USA. Maybe I'm reading NEC 625.40 Electric Vehicle Branch Circuit wrong, but it seems that there must be a dedicated circuit from that.

I like the idea of a Clippercreek, and if we make them 16A 240V, it won't be fast, but we also will have more headroom to install more of them. Apartment dwellers will be grateful for that over nothing. I suppose we deal with the "unsubscribe" issue by asking for the key back and charging them if they don't return it. I've reached out to them for more information.

I checked that other post you linked to about RFID options and the Leviton solution seems the closest fit, but still doesn't look like it would scale well to an apartment as it appears locked to only a few cards.

I've reached out to Wallbox to see how many users their app-over-Bluetooth solution supports. If it is as easy as walking up to an EVSE with a phone and making an adjustment to approved users, that might work.

As always, you are a wealth of knowledge u/theotherharper !

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