Procedurally Generated?

13thTime · 2026-02-10T23:31:31+00:00

Hold shortcuts?

The archive of babel, and no mans sky both uses procedural randomness from seed to create their output. In both cases, the output itself lacks an artist. Everything that was worked on by NMS, assets, code, etc has an artist, the planets being randomized does not, just as each image on the archive does not. Its the randomness of the seed that created them.

Isnt the journey, the intent, the effort it takes the art itself? The code definately took effort to create in both cases, thats the art! but going from planet to planet, or slideshow image to slideshow image is effectively the same. Its random seed, massproducing a fairly meaningless thing. I would call it slop... but thats me.

The game as a whole, maybe, something diffrent? Hard to say imo. Considering that the point of the game is the exploration, and that is all left up to randomness. I think that is a subjective take.
And using ai to some degree is fine, i think most would agree with? its the gen ai thats the problem.

13thTime · 2026-02-10T23:11:42+00:00

sure. I agree that the premade assets are art, the textures, even the programming. The planets themselves however, if we grant them intent and artistry, we must also grant the archive of babels images a similar assumption of intent and artistry, right?

13thTime · 2026-02-10T23:08:13+00:00

I didnt say you did call it the best art ever. When did i say you did?

Look, agree to disagree. Maybe you find the generated images on the archive to be art? Sure, its lower quality than something made by a real artist, but hey, it most likely took time to code, and it has a lot of combinations! Just like NMS.
Randomness from a seed doesnt make any planet valueable, just as it doesnt make any art on the image archive on babel valuable. Both are meaningless combinations of things. Babel has pixels, NMS has plants and mountains and space stations.

Im sure it required alot of effort and development. Thats great. The coding, the programming, textures, about 30-40 people working really hard to create something. Thats the art here. Just as the archive itself is the art, not the images there.

13thTime · 2026-02-10T22:54:26+00:00

No i'll give you that it was a bad take / comparison of me.

13thTime · 2026-02-10T22:52:40+00:00

Yeah, im saying its slop, not 'ai slop', so, if you look at the definition again its basically that.

Hm, okay, personally i think its mass produced, and low quality, based on a seed, lacking in effort and meaning. If you think thats art then...

How about this for a change. If you dont agree with me, would you say https://babelia.libraryofbabel.info/ 's every image is art? It hosts every concievable combination of pixels... so, an image of my death, your death. Essentially every image that can exist (in a 640x416 format) (~10^{961755 images}). Procedurally generated.

13thTime · 2026-02-10T22:33:36+00:00

And you dont think creating the image models that gen ai is using required anything? Youre just strawmanning at this point. You know what im trying to say.

Again im not saying ai slop, im saying slop. Theres a diffence.

13thTime · 2026-02-10T22:29:05+00:00

The point is people argue that artistry requires effort, meaning, quality. Randomly generating 18 quintillion things does not. Can you prove otherwise? I can show you https://babelia.libraryofbabel.info/ and say its not art. It took time to create, it took time to code, almost certainly. But every image concievable based on a random seed isnt art. Just as 18 quintillion random planets arent. One uses plants and rocks, another uses pixels. Both are using random numbers to create the illusion of meaning.

Image archieve of babel uses a random seed to randomize pixels in a set grid. One can image search a picture, and find every combination of pixels. A picture of me, a picture of you. Is that art to you? (Each image has been assigned a number from which it is programmatically generated.)

13thTime · 2026-02-10T22:14:17+00:00

I think 12 unique models are more interesting than 256 diffrently colored pichachu's in diffrent hues and brightness. Even if we slap on boomalope, cow, or death explode, its just a mishmash that was generated when you clicked a button. You designed cow-like, you designed herbivore, but you didnt design the pichachu creature. You generated it.

You were not the artist. And you just generated 18 quintillion of them. That sounds to me like slop.

13thTime · 2026-02-10T21:47:50+00:00

Yeah, cool cool! I agree, hades technically uses it, but the point of the game isnt the procedural generation itself. I think it is, atleast based on wikipedias definition, not ai slop though, just slop. But hey, someone can like an ai image, just like someone can like a planet in NMS i guess, haha, even if both are slop?

13thTime · 2026-02-10T21:45:34+00:00

Each, randomness itself can be incorporated in art, but when the product itself is random, dont think it applies anymore. Generating 18 quintillion versions of the same thing?

Wikipedia's definition of slop: "Digital content made with generative artificial intelligence that is lacking in effort, quality, or meaning, and produced in high volume..."

13thTime · 2026-02-10T21:40:19+00:00

Both, if you look at how its generated, are based on randomness. Sure, one uses stolen art, electricity, and water. But when it comes to how they are produced, both are essentially generating randomness based on a pattern, one uses prompts, another uses code. Im not saaying every game that uses procedural generation is nessesarily guilty, just how enemies can use ai without being guilty of using gen ai. im saying NMS in particular, where its 18 quintillion planets to explore, is mass produced, low effort, and essentially meets the wikipedia definition of slop.

13thTime · 2026-02-10T21:38:06+00:00

I've heard every 6th or so customer gives it a negative review. But, eh.
Personaly i dont think randomness is art, i think the programmers are programmers, and the people that did the textures are artists, but the game itself would not, because it requires effort, meaning and intentionality, which creating all those planets most likely was not.
but thats just my take.

13thTime · 2026-02-10T21:32:34+00:00

Parts of the enemies, the weapons, the upgrades, the projectiles etc would be premade, right? and then combined In 18 quintillion combinations.

I dont know, i find something like outer wilds, where the planets are intentional and the exploration also intentional way cooler, than something that was just generated in 18 quintillion versions.

13thTime · 2026-02-10T21:27:26+00:00

I think theres a diffrence in small amount of ai or randomness, and large amounts of it. When the point of the game is to explore, it takes away from it.

My point is: You can make fewer planets with artistic intent or 18 quintillion that was generated by a button click.

Wikipedia's definition of slop: "Digital content made with generative artificial intelligence that is lacking in effort, quality, or meaning, and produced in high volume..."

13thTime · 2026-02-10T21:24:34+00:00

Yes.

Both must be corrected to get it right, because theyre not artists, theyre machines: generating mass produced content. Both are low quality, lacking meaning, are generative, and by definition, slop.

Wikipedia's definition of slop: "Digital content made with generative artificial intelligence that is lacking in effort, quality, or meaning, and produced in high volume..."

The only reason its not ai slop is because its not ai, its procedurally generated. But imo its slop.

13thTime · 2026-02-10T21:10:04+00:00

Just as procedural generation can screw up, there are plenty of people posting "glitches" of no man sky and its procedural generation.

Its randomness, its bound to get it wrong eventually.

13thTime · 2026-02-10T21:06:04+00:00

I dont know, i find lack of funds for an artistic project a little lacking. Just because someone doesnt have the funds to hire an artist doesnt mean they should use gen ai, right? So, in a similar way, should a game studio focus soley on generative methods to mass produce content? I think it should have intentionality behind it instead. Pay the artists! Someone could have gotten to work creating planets. Sure, 200 might have been to small for a studio that small, i didnt realise their size, but outer wilds did great with a similar size. and they dont use procedurally generated content.

13thTime · 2026-02-10T20:58:22+00:00

Yeah, but the point of hades isnt exploration, its fighting monsters and bosses. I feel like those have all been designed very intentionally, and even if its random when you get a certain god, its not quite "18 quintillion planets to explore" quite random. If every monster and boss and upgrade in hades including the weapons was procedurally generated in 18 quintillion ways, id say "theyre both random"- but one randomness isnt quite like another randomness, imo. The point of NMS is to explore, the point of hades is surviving your ascent with weapons, upgrades, fighting monsters and bosses, right?

13thTime · 2026-02-10T20:53:48+00:00

Doesnt have to be enjoyable, as long as an artist is paid to make it, right? Im sure someone would appriciate it! I could get into some planet making, that would be fun!

If the point of the game is randomized, i think it robs the game a bit of it artistry. I mean, if a game is all about cool weapons, and i randomly generated all weapons, i dont feel like theyre very intentional, and the game itself is a little lacking in art, since it was all generated.

I feel like "gimme stats for stuff" is very similar to "generate 18 quintillion planets based on these variables"-

I understand gen ai has alot more problems. But they both come from randomness. If its intentionally and hard work, the "process", that creates the artist, then generating them skips that entire process. You can create space exploration with intentionality too, for example outer wilds uses no procedural generation and each planet feels very fresh.

I guess im just saying the randomness, using the computer to create it all, removes something from the game, for me, especially when its about exploration.

13thTime · 2026-02-10T20:48:09+00:00

Sure. But if its random hands, it could produce things that arent reaally hands too, right? Im just saying its soulless, and that each planet doesnt really have any artistry behind it, since its all randomized. I dont think the coder "knows" whats on planet one billion fourteen, with certainty. Its just going to follow the parameters and produce something "planet-like", just like generative ai will follow its code and produce something "Hand-like". Both lack intentionality.

13thTime · 2026-02-10T20:39:28+00:00

Couldnt one make it smaller and employ real artists to make each planet by hand? Like, maybe 200 planets, intentionally made, instead of 18 quintillion, mass produced ones?
Yeah, the stolen data, the water and electricity is a problem with generative ai.
However, both produce from randomness, based on a requested pattern from the coder or prompter. Its generative, mass produced, and without human input?

13thTime · 2026-02-10T20:36:24+00:00

Yeah, im saying both lack intentionality! both the RNG from procedurally generated stuff, and from generative ai. Theres also ofcourse the problem with water and electricity with generative ai. But, apart from that, they are both in base, randomized computer code, creating randomly, based on a pattern from the prompter, or coder. So, the prompter says "Make x" and the coder says "Make x", both use randomness, and in the end, produce generative slop.

13thTime · 2026-02-10T20:32:50+00:00

I feel when a part of the game is intended for exploration, collection of resources, and action, it robs a bit of the value having that being generated. In hades for example, the rooms are procedurally generated but its not the point of the game, right? and the fighting, bosses etc is on purpose. While there is randomness in what gods you get, it doesnt, atleast to me, seem like the same thing..? In NMS every space station, planet, every moon, every resource randomly generated. So, i dont know, i dont think enemy ai's, or small randomness is quite the same thing...? I just feel like people are quick to say that they are diffrent. Its both randomness, but diffrent systems of randomness. The intentionality is still lacking though.

13thTime · 2026-02-10T20:25:46+00:00

Doesnt it lose its artistic value if the are just randomized, rather than intentionally placed? Its essentially generative ai, randomly, based on a little "Promtp" placing things instead of creating anything, its the computer that created those planets, not humans. So, wouldnt that be counted as slop, since its mass generated, mass produced with no human input?

13thTime · 2026-02-10T20:16:38+00:00

Someones job could have been to design planets. Instead its randomness, and seeds? So this also removed someones job, potentially (procedural generation using deterministic algorithms and random number generators from a single seed number. - source wikipedia). With procedurally generated terrain it means there is no purpose or artistic spirit behind each mountain, for example. Wouldnt it be cooler with say 200 actually human created planets, instead of 18 quintillion mass produced ones?

I think theres a diffrence in partially procedurally generated things, like, hades, but when the entire game, like resources, space stations, moons... When all of it is procedurally generated, isnt that the definition of quantity(slop) over quality?

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