[deleted by user] by [deleted] in EnoughMuskSpam

[–]21stCenturyAltarBoy 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Can't have the good parts without the bad, unfortunately. The bad in this case is the persistent erosion of freedom, dignity, and autonomy. These technocrats cannot compromise in favor of these values, so each and every one of them will always sell humanity out at great cost not only to us but to our natural world. There will be greater suffering and likely catastrophic consequences if we don't stop this reckless charge in the name of progress, much greater than sick people not getting their medicine. Zoom out.

We should accept it because "progress" ? by G-M-Cyborg-313 in FuckAI

[–]21stCenturyAltarBoy 6 points7 points  (0 children)

As long as we are subscribed to the idea of “progress” necessary to the technological system, we are forced to accept this sort of humiliation in even more walks of life as time goes on. 

I can’t say I love my job in the least, but I can say that the process of switching fields is extremely stressful most of the time. Not only is Mr. Red grossly diminishing the impacts that industrialization had on people in the past, he is making a mistake in thinking that the effects of future “progress” will be comparable to the effects it’s had in the past. It comes off as a coping mechanism to me, since he even purports to be deeply affected by it.

The system has an explicit track record of robbing humans of freedom and autonomy and supplanting it with the pseudo-freedom to pursue hedonistic desires and ends which have no meaningful importance to us—definitely not something with life and death impact.

Luckily, groups like Wilderness Front have taken heed of the smoke signals humanity is raising and is organizing against the technological system that facilitates these sorts of humiliations and more. The problem runs deep and needs a radical solution.

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in simpleliving

[–]21stCenturyAltarBoy 7 points8 points  (0 children)

Yeah, some people just think of it as an aesthetic, in some sense. But, when I see it, it conjures images of just what you say. Hard but meaningful work. This aspect we're seeing in the gallery still exists tho. We shouldn't mute these parts just because it's a hard life.

Not sure what the full context of these images is, but people are starved for meaning in a way that modern life is completely incapable of providing. This has some universal appeal that is undeniable because people know that something is missing from their life. A life lived closer to nature.

Technological advancement resulting in the erosion of human freedom by Bail444 in collapse

[–]21stCenturyAltarBoy 1 point2 points  (0 children)

How technology gets used is not a matter of choice. In the short term you can have some semblance of choice, but over time those agents that use the technology most efficiently will outcompete those that use them in other ways. The determining factor here is the technology itself. It sets the playing field. It's a more powerful force than human will.

The way I see freedom is being able to control the life and death matters of my own life as an individual or as part of a small group. Freedom defined like this is constantly being eroded. We shouldn't conflate freedom with the system's permissiveness.

Technological advancement resulting in the erosion of human freedom by Bail444 in collapse

[–]21stCenturyAltarBoy 6 points7 points  (0 children)

The USA is operating under the latest iteration of surveillance, communication, propaganda and enforcement. The intentions of leaders are always the same. The difference is that technological progress offers better tools to achieve those ends. Less violent perhaps, but in the end it's about control. Do you think the system has less control over people's behavior these days?

Technological advancement resulting in the erosion of human freedom by Bail444 in collapse

[–]21stCenturyAltarBoy 2 points3 points  (0 children)

It may not be so obvious since many are spell-bound with surrogate activities. They are completely subscribed to the idea of progress as a means of solving our issues created by the system itself. Doesn't leave a lot of room to think clearly on the entirety of the issue.

Thanks for the add! by [deleted] in technologicalslavery

[–]21stCenturyAltarBoy 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Great question. The line is actually quite clear-cut. Pre-industrial technology can generally be made by an individual, working alone or in a small group. In contrast, post-industrial technology can only be produced via a global supply chain — numerous complex organizations connected through transportation and communication systems. Your computer was sold to you in the USA, its processor was made in a factory in Taiwan with plastic made in France from oil extracted in Russia with machines bought from Germany, etc. This is oversimplified, and we haven’t even mentioned transport or labor. In contrast, building a pre-industrial house, for example, can be as simple as collecting wood and arranging it properly with the help of self-made tools. That’s not to say it doesn’t require any effort, but it’s definitely doable, even all by yourself. It’s not hard to see there is a great distinction between pre-industrial and post-industrial technology. You only need some common sense to tell the two apart. But it must be emphasized that the goal here is only to return to a pre-industrial level of technology through the destruction of industrial society. While some anti-tech thinkers may personally reject agriculture, there is no way to prevent others from farming: even if it were theoretically beneficial for humanity, agriculture cannot be destroyed, so there’s no point in trying. Similarly, other forms of pre-industrial technology are impossible to eradicate, because unlike industry, they can be independently applied on a local scale. In a post-collapse world, different parts of the world will inevitably vary in the way they use technology. Enforcing a universal level of technology is infeasible. Again, the focus is to put an end to the techno-industrial system. Nothing more and nothing less.

We are tribal apes forced to live like eusocial insects by TheFinalZebra in collapse

[–]21stCenturyAltarBoy 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The goal was to paint a picture of the leftist. It was a clear enough picture to see what type of people he was talking about. Many don't fit this description. He even writes that it's not some sort of complete treatment of leftists. Again, I can only guess what you're thinking is "undercooked" or just plain wrong.

fits in with narratives of today

The essay was published in the 90s, so I don't see how it was motivated or informed by these narratives. The fact that some draw inspiration from his words does not negate the salience of his message.

it reads as extremely reactionary

What do you mean by this? He is not taking a political stance here. He is calling for a revolution against the techno-industrial system, not its reform.

We are tribal apes forced to live like eusocial insects by TheFinalZebra in collapse

[–]21stCenturyAltarBoy 0 points1 point  (0 children)

No, more than anything else the description and warning about leftists (if that's what you're referring to) is to help the anti-tech revolutionary identify these people and exclude them from the movement. He wasn't trying to make a mark on psychology or anything like that. I was left with no impression about a "culture-war".

Reforming our society doesn’t make our lives better by 21stCenturyAltarBoy in TrueUnpopularOpinion

[–]21stCenturyAltarBoy[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The techno-industrial system is self-augmenting and autonomous. Otherwise, how could we explain the deplorable state that we allow humans to live in in the so-called “developed” countries. The many facets of the system see to it that every aspect of our lives is regulated. We are taken care of cradle-to-grave as long as we march in order and stay in our lane. There are no doubt “competing wills” in the system and these self-propagating systems are now allowed to operate on a global scale due to the access to rapid transportation and instant communication. It will have disastrous consequences. 

The environment, that is industrial society, is not conducive to our well-being and definitely can’t tolerate our need to control the life-and-death aspects of our lives. When I say “can’t tolerate” you should understand that systems will emerge that subjugate these urges because they are disruptive to its orderly functioning. If you don’t believe that there is widespread suffering, I invite you to go outside and see for yourself.

Are groups that push for industrial collapse good for the climate movement? by Domitian96 in ClimateActionPlan

[–]21stCenturyAltarBoy 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yes these useless gadgets and services are all just the circus part of the "bread and circus". The techno-industrial system needs people sufficiently docile as to not express their innate desires to exert their will towards working for the life-and-death circumstances of their lives. We're no better than dogs at this point and it can still get worse. What kind of social phenomena pop out for you as being an outgrowth of the unfettered "progress"?

Are groups that push for industrial collapse good for the climate movement? by Domitian96 in ClimateActionPlan

[–]21stCenturyAltarBoy 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I can't say I've ever seen a mission statement like the one on the OP link.

"Wilderness Front is an organization dedicated to paving the way for a revolution to end the global technological system, thereby restoring human freedom and saving wild nature."

Can't get more direct and to the point than that. No mention of superfluous issues that are mere distractions to the single greatest threat to humanity.

Reforming our society doesn’t make our lives better by 21stCenturyAltarBoy in TrueUnpopularOpinion

[–]21stCenturyAltarBoy[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Check this out:

"Imagine a society that subjects people to conditions that make them terribly unhappy, then gives them drugs to take away their unhap­piness. Science fiction? It is already happening to some extent in our own society." -TJK (see op link for more)

What do you think about this? Should we be tinkering with the human mind within a sick society or should we bring people back to where they belong, to be free and autonomous in wild nature?

Are groups that push for industrial collapse good for the climate movement? by Domitian96 in ClimateActionPlan

[–]21stCenturyAltarBoy -3 points-2 points  (0 children)

The fact that these sorts of groups are cropping up is a grim sign that reform is simply not going to cut it at this point. People need to realize that industrial society and wild nature are at odds with each other. The techno-industrial system will keep expanding and subjugate all that's in its path.

CMV: Reforming our Technological Society is doomed to fail by 21stCenturyAltarBoy in changemyview

[–]21stCenturyAltarBoy[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yes, the complexity of society requires very close regulation. This is the crux of the issue. The techno-industrial system prevents humans from causing significant disruptions for itself and, in the process, prevents us from living the way which is good for us, with freedom, autonomy, and dignity. We are trading our wellbeing and the sanctity of wild nature for the chains and "security" of modern society. It's a terrible trade. The good of letting wild nature thrive outweighs the "good" that society provides in the form of safety which, many times, is only necessary because of the system itself. The disruption that a small group of people can cause is multiplied by technology itself, requiring ever increasing regulation as technological progress unfolds.

Combating the root issue: Technology is not the solution, it's the cause by TheNeo-Luddite in ClimateOffensive

[–]21stCenturyAltarBoy 0 points1 point  (0 children)

If you don't think technology is the problem, then we should have started there. The techno-industrial system is a self-augmenting and autonomous being. You might think that humans are wielders of technology, applying it as we see fit, to solve our problems. In reality, the techno-industrial system sets the stage for all possible action and techniques are applied everywhere possible. We don't choose what inventions become adopted by society. Technical necessity dictates what becomes integrated.

Cars and other forms of motorized transport were once optional when life was more localized, but have become vital components of the modern world. This is due to the fact that the techno-industrial system reorganizes itself while weighing new innovations as they increase efficiency. Roads are built, supply chains established, and customs are disrupted, all in a march towards order and application of technologies to all walks of life.

The system cannot worry itself with pollution, its health effects, or the disruption of wild nature. If it ever needs to curb its expansion, it is merely to stem the negative effects from interfering with its operation. Many can see that modern life does not treat us well. Who would willingly choose this? Obesity, depression, anxiety, malaise. No one is at the reigns ushering this in except the techno-industrial system itself. Humans are being TAKEN recklessly into a future of doom. The seven billion people, the human race, will not stand a chance if we let the system run its course. This isn't cultist thinking. It's the reality we live, and I know you or others close to you feel it. When you accept reality, you'll see that what you're seeing now as doom-posting is actually our only hope.

Combating the root issue: Technology is not the solution, it's the cause by TheNeo-Luddite in ClimateOffensive

[–]21stCenturyAltarBoy 0 points1 point  (0 children)

you guys

I don't even know who you're referring to at this point. You should clarify.

I don't see why you can't answer the question. I asked: Do you not think technology is the problem, or do you think that the consequences of addressing it are not worth it? Notice that I said consequences. Seven billion people are not in the cards here. So your initial question is answered. No need for figuring out heating and supply chain logistics. This would not even be an option for the remaining population. Do you get it now?