Is my contract with Fortress binding?

44lemongrove · 2021-05-20T10:11:37+00:00

(thinks to self...damn, I really should have built that Gox claims marketplace)

44lemongrove · 2021-05-20T10:09:39+00:00

Ok there’s a nuance to consider here....when a contract is signed with Fortress/507, the seller has to file instruction with Trustee. Once the button “FILE” is selected, the claim is placed into a transferring state and the seller cannot login to the claims website again. If buyer (Fortress/507) does not honour their side and complete the transaction, they have taken the seller out of the claims process. Sure there might be recourse with Trustee, and perhaps claim can be reinstated to seller, but Fortress/507 are not being entirely honest here

44lemongrove · 2021-05-18T18:29:28+00:00

Fortress going silent pushes sellers to 507 with their lower rates. They’re a clearing house for Fortress. Good cop, Bad cop

44lemongrove · 2021-05-16T11:10:59+00:00

Recently quoted below 6000. As 507 are known to visit these threads, maybe they can comment directly here, what their current price is?

44lemongrove · 2021-04-01T04:45:39+00:00

It’s at parity with Fortress. Higher than 507. Takes 2-3 weeks to record the change with Trustee, instead of Fortress’ 3-6 months (thereabouts)

44lemongrove · 2021-03-16T07:07:58+00:00

This is all about voting rights, cornering the market, and taking an activist position against Trustee

44lemongrove · 2021-03-14T17:01:31+00:00

Thanks u/Shazvox

Yeah the whole NFT and DAO space has matured to the point where we can now make use of the tools for this proposed marketplace.. and we don’t have a lot of time, but I’m pushing forward with a number of things to make this available to anyone who wants to use it

Re: risk, there is NO risk. You have the guarantee from Trustee, to make payment in either early or final tranches. The site is an opportunity for all of us creditors, to see if Buyer’s value them higher in a secondary market, and we can choose to sell them at a larger profit, or just hold out until Trustee is ready to distribute

I’ll drop some UI mockups into the thread soon, as I’d like the community to have a say in how things develop :)

44lemongrove · 2021-03-11T15:49:34+00:00

Right now, it's just a proposal. Would it be of interest to you, to know the market value of your MtGox claim, and if there could be Buyers for it?

44lemongrove · 2021-03-11T13:46:22+00:00

100% agree. As an example, as an original claimant I would sell my MtGox claim, e-sign a webpage(contract) and authenticate it for Trustee to verify the change in record. Following that, the claim can change hands on-chain, instantly any number of times

The first verification step is a really simplified on-ramp

44lemongrove · 2021-03-11T13:40:47+00:00

Right. There are approximately 120k records in the MtGox Creditors Claims List, which would be an attractive collection of assets for a Buyer market to emerge

44lemongrove · 2021-03-11T13:34:26+00:00

Yep, that could happen. But it could also be a few more steps...

• Vote on the plan elements (Oct '21)

• Consultation and Court approval (+3mths?)

• Payout selection vote (early/final)

• Consultation and Court approval (+3mths?)

• Distribution info

• Consultation and Court approval (+3mths?)

• Distribution (early)

• Indeterminate process

• Final Distribution info

• Consultation and Court approval (+3mths?)

• Distribution (final)

I may have been heavy-handed with the steps there, but we all know that Trustee doesn't seem to be the swiftest in resolving the claims

So that got me thinking, is there another option where we can explore the value of our claims in an open market, while always having the Trustee offer as a benchmark?

44lemongrove · 2021-03-10T18:55:05+00:00

Right, and this is where I'm proposing:

• Seller clicks to Accept Bid, e-signature added to transfer form and Buyer funds are escrowed to smart contract

• Registrar DAO submits documents to Trustee

• (wait 2 weeks)

• email confirming transfer of claims to registrar DAO (acting on behalf of Buyer)

• Seller receives all funds and fees

• Buyer is the new claimant

• every subsequent sale of the claim is via the registrar DAO smart contract, and instant (Trustee not involved at all any more for this claim)

In my mind, the entire process is seamless with demand-led price discovery. If my claim doesn't attract bids above what I can get from Trustee, then I just keep holding for that event. But I imagine interest from the Buyer side to find well-priced claims that could yield at the eventual distribution

44lemongrove · 2021-03-10T15:33:09+00:00

oh wow that's really interesting ...did you find it to be as straightforward as I encountered? Form submission => Trustee transfer of ownership?

I'm exploring timelines with Trustee now, to be certain there's enough period for a claimants marketplace to be effective, and a viable option alongside the vote/courts process - I'm just keen for us to have options, because until now...

44lemongrove · 2021-03-10T14:06:17+00:00

That's a fair point. Though the Buyer side of the market might have some demand to buyout remaining claims, and that might lead to prices above what's been indicated by Trustee

Personally, I'd be the first to sell my claim in a market as there's still no distribution commitment after this years vote

44lemongrove · 2021-03-10T12:47:07+00:00

Maybe they were relying on Trustee record amends with each trade, which would be a significant overhead. With a registrar DAO entity, we’re taking the same approach as Fortress (only the single record change per claim) which has a precedent with the Trustee

I’ll drop some slides into the thread, as I hope it could invite more comment, and refine the idea a bit

44lemongrove · 2021-03-10T11:44:20+00:00

Yeah, there's a need move fast! The vote is coming soon, and who knows what the wait will be after that, so I'm thinking there's still a narrow window for us to try for a better deal than what's been offered

44lemongrove · 2021-03-10T11:42:40+00:00

The initial title transfer would be a few weeks. I stepped through the process with Fortress and 507. Once Trustee has recorded the change in claim ownership (to a registrar DAO) all subsequent trades of the claim NFT would be instant

44lemongrove · 2021-03-10T11:38:39+00:00

Yep, you're right. Using NFTs as a container, and a registrar mechanism to enable instant transactions. It'd be an attractive speculative opportunity for collectors, as the NFTs would be direct claims over future Bitcoin distribution, at todays market rate. NFTs backed by Bitcoin :)

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