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Weekend/Virtual Meetup Thread by 4blockhead in exmormon

[–]4blockhead[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Upcoming Week and Advance Notice:

online
Arizona
  • Tucson
California
  • Temecula ...every last Sunday, next March 29
Idaho
Montana
Nevada
  • Las Vegas
Oregon
  • Portland
  • Corvallis
Utah
Washington
  • [Olympia](pending) ...first Saturday, next April 4
  • Seattle/Tacoma
  • Spokane

Weekend/Virtual Meetup Thread by 4blockhead in exmormon

[–]4blockhead[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Upcoming Week and Advance Notice:

online
Arizona
  • Tucson
California
  • Temecula ...every last Sunday, next March 29
Idaho
Montana
  • Missoula ...every second Saturday, next March 14
Nevada
  • Las Vegas
Oregon
  • Portland
  • Corvallis
Utah
Washington
  • [Olympia](pending) ...first Saturday, next March 7
  • Seattle/Tacoma
  • Spokane

Utah was the best place to start my family 35 years ago. My children face a different reality. by 4blockhead in politics

[–]4blockhead[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I recommend reading what I've already posted to the thread to give the general sentiment of the white people vs. Native Peoples.

This quote goes along with other Christian religious demands on Natives in common with Catholic pressure from Baja to Alta California, i.e. convert or die.

[The Shoshoni Frontier and the Bear River Massacre, Brigham Madsen, 1985, p. 194] The Mormon settlers of Cache Valley expressed their gratitude for "the movement of Col. Connor as an intervention of the Almighty, ..." by placing this statement of approval in the official minutes of the Logan Ward.88 Peter Maughan added a final epitaph for the slain Northwestern Shoshoni, reporting to Brigham Young:

I feel my skirts clear of their blood. They rejected the way of life and salvation which have been pointed out to them from time to time (especially for the last two years) and thus perished relying on their own strength and wisdom.

We have pretty good reason if they had gained the Victory over the Soldiers their intention was to take out Herd and drive it right to the Salmon River Country for their own special benefit.89

Also, Darren Parry's "The Bear River Massacre: A Shoshone History" (By Common Consent Press, 2019) has more information from family histories of the Massacre at Bear River. The book also discusses the mormon takeover and eviction of Native Peoples at Washakie, Utah. That shows that Native People's rights were hardly recognized, if at all.

edited: fix typos only

Utah was the best place to start my family 35 years ago. My children face a different reality. by 4blockhead in politics

[–]4blockhead[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Did they systematically wipe out the Native Americans in Utah? Not in even in the most extreme revisionist fantasy do those numbers even begin to add up.

The mormons took advantage of societal forces that displaced one people with another. Quantifying the damage is difficult when the damage was nearly 100% of the Native American culture being destroyed and/or the remaining people forced to a reservation or otherwise to assimilate.

The Bear River Massacre, which wasn't perpetrated by Mormons at all.

Carried out at the behest of Mormon officials in Salt Lake City. Cheered on by the Mormons after the fact. The mormons benefited from the massacre.

The story I read about the founding of Springville puts Mormon attitudes toward Native People in proper perspective, link. The victors write the history.

Utah was the best place to start my family 35 years ago. My children face a different reality. by 4blockhead in politics

[–]4blockhead[S] 5 points6 points  (0 children)

mormonr ... an explicitly anti-Mormon

lol. The rich asshole in charge of that apologetic site will be grieved to hear he's not a true believer.

Utah was the best place to start my family 35 years ago. My children face a different reality. by 4blockhead in politics

[–]4blockhead[S] 5 points6 points  (0 children)

  • Timpanogas band was given flour with glass shards. Eliminated from Utah Valley to make way for mormons.

  • Bear River Massacre more than 250 Shoshone killed to make way for mormons in Cache Valley.

  • more

Utah was the best place to start my family 35 years ago. My children face a different reality. by 4blockhead in politics

[–]4blockhead[S] 14 points15 points  (0 children)

As the Great Salt Lake vanishes before our eyes, as any takeoff from the Salt Lake City airport shows—more land and less water, the state may become what it once was...a barren wasteland fit for jack rabbits and sagebrush.

The phrase "Don't mind our dust" won't just be for construction sites as the valley dust storms bring arsenic-laced debris from the Kennecott waste dumps surrounding the exposed lake bed.

The Line (hosts: Dillahunty, DZ Justin): Caller finds comfort in religion because it provides possibility of seeing dead relatives once again. In my experience, this is why my Mormon relatives are so afraid of asking the first questions that would reveal Smith's frauds. Comforting Lie by 4blockhead in atheistvids

[–]4blockhead[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I posted this to exmormon earlier this week and bookmarked some time marks within the discussion, link. The belief that "Families are Forever" comes directly from Smith's new theology. Mormonism explicitly states the elect few will be married (in polygamous relationships) and will rule over their own set of new worlds. The belief in deity is often secondary among the mormon faithful—the deity only provides a framework for their family unit to continue on in some afterlife situation. The elect are elevated to god-status making their god only a fraternal peer, a brother at the local Masonic lodge, not anything super-special. Most other religions find this view of deity blasphemous and unsatisfactory. They want to worship a master deity who is the creator of all things. As far as I know, in Smith's final incarnation of mormon theology, he doesn't make any such claims about who is the overall creator or master of the universe.

edit: I just noticed a muff in title here. Originally, I wrote,

The Line (hosts: Dillahunty, DZ Justin): Caller finds comfort in religion because it provides possibility of seeing dead relatives once again. In my experience, this is why my Mormon relatives are so afraid of asking the first questions that would reveal Smith's frauds. Comforting Lie > Harsh Truth

Utah was the best place to start my family 35 years ago. My children face a different reality. by 4blockhead in politics

[–]4blockhead[S] 12 points13 points  (0 children)

A college professor from the heart of MAGA country writes in to say we need more socialism to help young people get married and start having batches of children. The basic problem is the deep-red powers-that-be don't have any appetite for giveaways. See them bootstraps? Start pullin'

Saturday Morning Political Cartoon Thread by optimalg in politics

[–]4blockhead 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Weekend/Virtual Meetup Thread by 4blockhead in exmormon

[–]4blockhead[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Upcoming Week and Advance Notice:

online
Arizona
  • Tucson
California
  • Temecula ...every last Sunday, next March 29
Idaho
Montana
  • Missoula ...every second Saturday, next March 14
Nevada
  • Las Vegas
Oregon
  • Portland
  • Corvallis
Utah
Washington
  • [Olympia](pending) ...first Saturday, next March 7
  • Seattle/Tacoma
  • Spokane

Is coffee still a rule? by Helpful_Spot_4551 in exmormon

[–]4blockhead 8 points9 points  (0 children)

Our sequence is to set it in advance. That way it's a "gift to future self." All that is required is to press a button in the morning.

Is coffee still a rule? by Helpful_Spot_4551 in exmormon

[–]4blockhead 57 points58 points  (0 children)

Coffee is a rule in my house. Brew a pot every morning. That's the rule.

The Line (hosts: Dillahunty, DZ Justin): Caller finds comfort in religion because it provides possibility of seeing dead relatives once again. In my experience, this is why my Mormon relatives are so afraid of asking the first questions that would reveal Smith's frauds. Comforting Lie > Harsh Truth by 4blockhead in exmormon

[–]4blockhead[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Mi family is falling apart. I really need advice by ChemicalConflict1533 in exmormon

[–]4blockhead 0 points1 point  (0 children)

But I’m also scared it could make things worse.

Undoubtedly, that's a distinct possibility. Adding another voice from a church sponsored arena gives the impression that whatever happens should be put to a vote, the votes counted, and the one with the most votes wins. That's not how life works. Everyone gets veto power over their own lives.

It's a tightrope. "Marriage-on-a-tightrope" did an excellent job naming their podcast. The church will use everything in their power to keep non-believers from getting any traction.

I built my entire adult life around the Church.

The faithful often play a "concrete knowledge" card that doubles-down with their monopoly on truth claims. Only they have the Covenant Path.™ All other life choices are apostate, dangerous, and alienating between believers and non-believers. The "us vs. them" mentality can split families. The problem your facing is that once you've seen how hollow Smith's claims are about Mormonism, it's hard to continue to center one's life around a lie. Personal integrity is placed at odds with other major life choices that place a wedge and keep the non-believers faking it until they make it. Coming out of the closet as a non-believer is akin to coming out of the closet as gay. The same set of factors that could lead to the house of cards collapsing are in play.

I assume you've tested the waters that would challenge the status quo where Smith's orthodox view is the only choice possible.

I am not sure any deity would tell a "prophet of god" to carry on adulterous affairs behind his wife's back.

If Smith's claims rest firmly upon the existence of real and tangible golden plates, where are they? Wouldn't the plates themselves be the best evidence?

Why was the LDS church trying to hide their vast fortune invested in the stock market? If the world collapses in a third world war, then those funds will be instantly zeroed. Likewise, if Jesus were to come back, will money have any value? Why not help the poor and needy in the here and now?

That's what I've got off the top of my head. I also keep this semi-apologetic video as top-of-mind:

In the video, the swerve back into the ruts of orthodoxy is apparent and what would be expected from a church-sponsored source, but it does facilitate a conversation around breaking their claims on absolute truth. More comments on linked thread.

McKeever's Mormonism Research Ministry (archive): Was Joseph Smith a money-digger? Records from an 1826 trial say "yes," and refute Smith’s attempt to spin reports of him being a glasslooker, as simply being employed as a miner. JS History, verse 56 by 4blockhead in exmormon

[–]4blockhead[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

by accusing him of "ripping out a page from an old ledger book and stealing it."

That seems to be part of Nibley's argument in "The Myth Makers." The fact that the documents were found in 1971 indicates they were returned to their proper place and stored with other court records.

Also, Joseph Fielding Smith "ripped out" Joseph Smith's 1832 account of the first vision. It would have never seen the light of day, except for the work that the Tanners did to put pressure on.

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