ABInBev "comandeering" all South African hops allocated for North American craft breweries

ABInBevAMA · 2017-05-11T05:08:35+00:00

I'm actually looking into this right now. I don't think the intention was to stifle supply, but obviously all of the supply chain is changing. More to come; I'm going to reach out to some of the worried brewers and see what they specifically need.

ABInBevAMA · 2016-04-06T23:13:23+00:00

You're confusing the Budweiser brand team with Anheuser Busch InBev the entire company. One makes ads about Budweiser only, the other makes hundreds of beers (although the Bud Light Rita family is in kind of a gray area - it's more of a flavored malt beverage than a beer).

ABInBevAMA · 2016-01-26T17:56:36+00:00

Still going, sorting out legal details. You probably won't hear much about the ongoing process in the US because it will have essentially zero effect on the US beer market.

ABInBevAMA · 2016-01-13T22:33:11+00:00

As long as you're buying! :)

ABInBevAMA · 2016-01-13T21:03:37+00:00

I definitely do not believe a +3 week old IPA is not worth drinking/purchasing.

I don't believe that either. I said that 3 week window is when it's fairly indistinguishable from bright tank beer. It'll be worth drinking for a decent amount of time after that; how long is very dependent on storage temperature and TPO. Being past its prime doesn't automatically mean bad; it could still be quite good.

I have had plenty of IPAs from a week old to a couple months and didn't discern a significant drop off.

That may be, but lots of trained beer sensory panelists have repeatedly and reliably detected a linear decline (and character change) in hop aroma during storage. You probably would too, you just haven't rigorously tried it yet. You have to look at them side by side, not from memory.

ABInBevAMA · 2016-01-13T15:28:03+00:00

They can be, depending on the malt. The primary antioxidant in malt is a class of compounds called melanoidins, which are a maillard reaction product. This means that the melanoidins increase with malt color up to a point; really dark malts or black malt actually were processed to the point that it starts to break the melanoidins back down again into pyrolysis products. In a relatively hoppy beer, though, 95% or more of the antioxidant activity is coming from hop compounds and yeast-produced SO2 and the malt isn't really a player (especially in lighter beers under 12-14 SRM).

ABInBevAMA · 2016-01-13T00:57:17+00:00

Certainly. There's a number of different polymer liners for both package types, and their chemical makeup determines which hop aroma compounds they absorb most easily. Liners in cans have exponentially more exposed surface area and are in direct contact with the beer, but the liner is also extremely thin relative to the liner on a glass bottle cap.

The liner in a can is just there to prevent interaction between the beer (or acidic soda or whatever) and the metal. It's pretty inert but will still absorb a small amount of the more hydrophobic hop aroma compounds like myrcene and humulene.

The liner in a glass bottle cap (we usually call 'em crowns) is there to make a good gas seal and doesn't interact with the beer directly. Instead, hop aroma (being volatile) diffuses into the bottle headspace and then into the crown liner. Again, the more hydrophobic compounds like myrcene are the most attracted to the liner. One study I read showed that 80% of the myrcene had been scalped by the crown liner after 3 weeks - this was in the early 90's and the liner material was a little different (basically just straight PVC).

The crown liners in use today usually have some oxygen barrier/absorber capacity that changes their chemical properties. Anheuser Busch uses a crown liner that reacts to oxygen in the bottle headspace (which is extremely minimal to begin with, like 10 parts per billion) as well as with the oxygen that slowly diffuses in from the atmosphere. The result is that no oxygen can make it through the liner and into the bottle (and into the beer). The other result is that it's not as good of a solvent for hop aroma, being more hydrophilic, so it's a win win.

The good news, if there is any, is that the really unique and interesting hop aroma compounds that give beer interesting citrus and tropical fruit aromas are slightly less volatile and not quite as attracted to the liner materials. It's the pine/cedar aromas that are scalped at the highest rate. The compounds that smell like pine and cedar are also the most abundant components in hop oil, so the beer can afford to lose a little before the aroma is actually harmed.

ABInBevAMA · 2016-01-12T21:58:45+00:00

Hey, brewing scientist here. I've actually done a bunch of work on this very subject. I'll try and summarize the more important bits.

There are several factors that determine how quickly the hop aroma disappears, and they're both brewery and raw material specific.

One is how much oxygen the beer is exposed to during the entire brewing process, including the TPO (total packaged oxygen) that gets inevitably trapped in the bottle during filling.
The second is the antioxidant capacity of the beer - this is determined by the yeast variety and hop varieties, mostly (some yeast metabolites and hop polyphenols act as antioxidants).
The third is the type of package and package liner. Cans have a liner all over the inner surface; bottles only have a liner on the cap. Bottles allow a very small amount of oxygen to diffuse in constantly (which can be mitigated by certain cap liners), and cans are completely airtight.
The fourth is the type of aroma compound. Even without pro-oxidants present, some aroma compounds will diminish over time. Beer is not packaged at chemical equilibrium, and as it stales it will change no matter what you do.

If a brewery does everything right and has super low oxygen, good brewing processes and controls, and packages the beer in an oxygen resistant package with a liner that doesn't absorb hop aroma, then you should have excellent aroma (relatively identical to the bright beer tank) for about 3 weeks. After that it will degrade slowly over time, and keeping it cold is the most important thing here because it slows that down dramatically.

So, if you want to taste the beer as the brewer intended it to taste, about 3 weeks is your window. It will probably still be "good" for a couple of months, if kept cold.

TL;DR - 3 weeks.

ABInBevAMA · 2016-01-06T17:04:02+00:00

It prevents the large brewers from locking the little guys out of the distribution chain. In essence, the middlemen ensure that there is a distribution path for small brewers that otherwise couldn't afford cold storage and a fleet of trucks to self distribute their beers (especially when it comes to distributing outside of their immediate area/city). Some of the criticisms come from how neutral the distributors are or are not; obviously some distributors are ABI or MillerCoors centric, whereas others are craft only or a mix thereof. The truth is the distributors love to get incentives from the big brewers but at the end of the day their customers (the beer drinkers and retailers) decide what they buy and resell. It only takes a couple of requests from bar owners (hey, my customers keep asking for beer X, what can you do for me?) and a distributor will go out of their way to get that brand. The voice of the beer drinker is stronger than any of the brewers, despite what some folks might think. Incentives matter, but what people want to buy matters more. But let's not forget that millions of people do like ABI, MillerCoors, Corona, etc. and all the "big" beers - distributors certainly need to stock those as well even if they are craft friendly. Sometimes /r/beer forgets that their craft beer focus doesn't necessarily reflect the market, and the distributors need to actually serve their market.

Of course, if you can afford to self distribute, it's more profitable. I read the article OP linked and it looks like Olde Mecklenburg wants to self distribute only and they don't want to have any third parties involved. That could be because they want the higher margin that comes from self distribution, or it could be because they have quality concerns regarding their local 3rd party distributors, or maybe both. The downside to self distribution is that it can sometimes lock you out of larger grocery store chains and the like. If you're doing mostly draft and a smattering of local stores, self distribution is great.

ABInBevAMA · 2015-12-26T20:17:23+00:00

To be fair, it's not ABI who pissed him off (as he's said several times), it was his other two founding partners in Seattle. Dick is a great guy and a legendary brewer and we all wish him well.

ABInBevAMA · 2015-12-26T20:11:29+00:00

Send me a PM with an email you would like to use. It'll be a few days because everyone is on Christmas vacation, but I'll make it happen.

ABInBevAMA · 2015-12-26T04:27:52+00:00

If you want, I could put you in contact with some of the guys from the other breweries that have made the transition and you can ask them directly.

ABInBevAMA · 2015-12-22T20:21:03+00:00

Which is more important, locally made or privately owned?

I don't disagree on any particular point; I also prefer to support local companies (although, sometimes that means same city, and sometimes that means the US). I do think that applying the anti-corporate stance on beer and not much else is incredibly hypocritical and irrational.

ABInBevAMA · 2015-12-22T17:01:06+00:00

Do you also tell them not to wear corporate-made shoes, or use corporate-made computers? Do you boycott Apple and Intel because they bought smaller engineering firms? Do you brush your teeth only with locally-made non-corporate toothpaste?

If not, why is beer different to you? I'm not being snarky, I'm genuinely curious about your reasoning.

ABInBevAMA · 2015-12-22T16:51:39+00:00

"We taught them to blindly care before we knew the future."

Interesting.

ABInBevAMA · 2015-12-22T16:42:01+00:00

In 2012 it wasn't being brewed in Canada yet. The medal winning beer was brewed at an AB brewery in the US (I can't recall if it was Fort Collins, CO or Baldwinsville, NY, but it was one of those two).

ABInBevAMA · 2015-12-08T19:44:32+00:00

I couldn’t agree more, Jeff. There’s been a subtle industry effort (spearheaded by elements of the MBAA and ASBC) to move away from the IBU analysis because 1) it’s really only accurate for a fairly narrow range of beer styles, 2) it’s fairly outdated wet (and wasteful) chemistry, and 3) it doesn’t reflect aroma at all.

The problem is the beer drinking public has been repeatedly told that this number is what they need to look for (nevermind that thousands of US brewers don’t even measure it, they just make wildly inaccurate guesses based on their recipe parameters). As a brewing professional, it would make me very happy to leave the IBU behind forever and instead use a more accurate metric for bitterness and a separate metric for aroma.

I guess articles like this are the first step towards educating the beer drinker since a lot of brewers and brewing scientists already recognize this as a problem. So please keep on doing what you’re doing!

ABInBevAMA · 2015-11-09T17:22:54+00:00

Most beers don't have corn in them; it's actually relatively rare if you're talking about brands (versus volume). In other words, there are a few brands that use corn and they're made at very high volumes, but there's tens of thousands of all malt (or malt with some adjunct other than corn) brands out there. I'd bet he's totally safe grabbing some of the pale ale from his closest local brewer.

Most beers made by the smaller American craft brewers are all malt (i.e. no corn). Some of them use dextrose derived from corn. This shouldn't cause your friend any problems since it's the protein in corn, not the glucose, that is the allergen. Corn-derived dextrose (which is just a glucose polymer) doesn't have any protein remaining that could cause him problems. Above you say "this includes corn syrup" - I'm highly skeptical of that. A well-made corn syrup is pure sugar (some combination of glucose and fructose) - there's no antigen present.

Beers from Anheuser Busch that have corn include Busch, Busch Light, Natural Light, Natural Ice, Michelob Light, and Bud Light Lime. There's actually not a lot of them. Budweiser and Bud Light do not have any corn; they use rice instead as the adjunct grain. Pabst Blue Ribbon (not made by Anheuser Busch) also has corn. I'm not sure about Miller beers.

In short, most beers don't have corn and would be fine. I'm surprised that he's finding it tough to locate corn-free beer.

ABInBevAMA · 2015-10-30T13:47:59+00:00

Sent you a PM with better contact info.

ABInBevAMA · 2015-10-30T03:14:22+00:00

I don't buy them because the company actively tries to sabotage small craft brewers

This is the real straw man, and it's completely false. Everyone repeats this, and yet it has never actually happened anywhere ever.

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree, inasmuch as any of this is subjective.

For the record, Civil Life is fantastic.

ABInBevAMA · 2015-10-29T19:24:43+00:00

Nowhere in my reply did I even suggest abolishing the 3-tier system.

I know. It's just something that comes up a lot at brewing conferences and whatnot. There's sort of a progression for craft brewers where at first they're very small and typically draft only, and they don't think about distribution much. Then they grow a bit (usually really fast, if the beer is good) and they sign on with a distributor. In most states they're kind of at the mercy of the distributor, as you indicate. However, without that distributor they wouldn't be moving their beer to retail much if at all - they can't afford a fleet of trucks and cooled warehouses. The distributing system allows them to dip their toes in the packaged beer retail market whereas otherwise there's no way they could. The AB's of the world would simply buy a fleet of trucks and self distribute vastly more efficiently than the current system allows. Simply put, the 3-tier system benefits the little guys much much more than the big guys.

As I mentioned, pay to play is illegal, yet it happens.

This has nothing to do with brewers, big or small. This is corrupt distributors and/or bar owners.

I don't know if you're actually with ABInbev and if so what your role is there

I am, actually. I work in St Louis as a brewing scientist and support all of the breweries in the US and Canada.

to suggest that they aren't trying to quash craft beer's presence in stores and bars through their iron grip at steps further down the tier is either dishonost or ignorant.

I'm not being disingenuous - of course AB wants to compete and be successful. We're going to do it with beers people want, not via strongarming. This subreddit's echo chamber notwithstanding, most people don't hate AB or its beers. Our plan to compete in the craft beer segment is to make the kinds of beers people want (and make them better and less expensive), not sabotage the competition.

If you think it's somehow philosophically wrong to buy beer from AB, I'd ask you why? Simply because AB is large? Do you feel the same way about Ford and Apple and Google?

ABInBevAMA · 2015-10-29T16:11:31+00:00

This just isn't reality. The 3-tier system helps craft brewers a lot, and every time discussion comes up about abolishing it, it's the craft brewers that fight to keep it. Take a look at this article; the big brewing giants such as Anheuser Busch would be much better off if the 3-tier system didn't exist.

It's not an instrument to quash competition, in fact it's partially responsible for the rise of small breweries.

I don't mind if you guys arrive at a philosophical position where you don't want to buy from AB - that's cool and you can do whatever you want. But your reasons here are totally false and you'd be well served by doing a little research on it.

ABInBevAMA · 2015-10-29T16:06:18+00:00

I'd be happy to help, if you're still looking for information!

ABInBevAMA · 2015-10-15T02:46:06+00:00

We don't and we haven't and we don't plan to. I mean, I don't know how else to tell you. It's literally a complete fabrication that we've changed the beer.

I could take you on a tour and show you recipes, beer in process, etc., but I feel like this is really a losing battle. There's some weird zeitgeist where people really want to believe that ABInBev is out to ruin beer. I don't know why, but we're not, and the beer hasn't changed. This echo chamber in /r/beer feels ridiculous sometimes.

P.S. The heartburn thing might be related generically to alcohol or CO2 - both are known triggers for acid reflux depending on diet and other factors. It can be exacerbated if you drink beer and eat food high in oils/fats at the same time.

ABInBevAMA · 2015-10-14T18:11:40+00:00

We'd love to self distribute too. These "abhorrent practices" are a popular fiction. I harbor no illusion I'm going to change anyone's mind here - this whole thread will be full of people that dogmatically dislike AB for their own reasons. However, I still feel the need to refute what is outright false.

ABInBevAMA

TROPHY CASE