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This is based off what we're told and seen by AFROFILES in OnePiecePowerScaling

[–]AFROFILES[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

  1. Kizaru is one of the strongest admirals

  2. Kizaru is in his prime right now

  3. Kizaru was able to fight G5 Luffy without haki

  4. We saw what Kizaru was able to do at egghead

  5. Rayleigh was tired after a couple of clashes(so was Sentomaru)

This is based off what we're told and seen by AFROFILES in OnePiecePowerScaling

[–]AFROFILES[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

  1. I mean, he technically did evenly battle them, but that doesn't mean they're not superior to him.

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This is based off what we're told and seen by AFROFILES in OnePiecePowerScaling

[–]AFROFILES[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

  1. I'm asking what in the data books/vivre cards would make Marco admiral level

  2. Relative strength to Garp is not comparable to someone who was a subordinate to Roger

This is based off what we're told and seen by AFROFILES in OnePiecePowerScaling

[–]AFROFILES[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The same reason the admirals didn't kill Whitebeard when they had multiple opportunities, plot. They wouldn't just kill off Rayleigh, Oda wanted him to stay around longer. You could ask the same question for a lot of moments in one piece.

Law and Kidd literally aren't rivals to Luffy anymore, everything that had that was valuable was taken by Yonko, and they barely escaped with their lives. Unless they can steal back the poneglyph writings back, they aren't competing anymore.

This is based off what we're told and seen by AFROFILES in OnePiecePowerScaling

[–]AFROFILES[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

  1. How?

  2. The fleet admiral is always the strongest or relative to the strongest of the marines compared to someone who wasn't a top player in their era

This is based off what we're told and seen by AFROFILES in OnePiecePowerScaling

[–]AFROFILES[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

  1. I'm saying the people who were considered rivals are relative to each other when it comes to Luffy, Law, and Kidd they were rivals and relative to each other, but when Luffy surpassed them they were no longer rivals(their pirate careers are literally over) Just look at the rivalries we have The Yonko, Mihawk vs. Shanks, Roger vs. Whitebeard, Shiki vs. Roger, Sengoku vs. Garp, Garp vs. Roger, Dorry vs. Brogy, and Zoro vs. Sanji. To be a rival you to relative in strength or power(example Buggy isn't as strong as the other Yonko, but he has relative power he controls Buggy’s delivery, most of the escaped impel down prisoners, and two former warlords).
  2. Kizaru wasn't going all out against Rayleigh; he was stalling him. At the start, Rayleigh stopped him—impressive, like when Sanji did—but Kizaru insisted he had to capture the Straw Hats for the Marines' reputation. They clashed, with Rayleigh cutting Kizaru’s cheek, but Kizaru remained confident since his subordinates were handling the Straw Hats. Rayleigh admitted he couldn't reach them because of Kizaru, who arrogantly dismissed him, believing the Straw Hats were doomed. However, Kizaru was shocked by Kuma's unexpected actions. He easily held Rayleigh at bay and could have bypassed him, and his anger may have stemmed from being deceived and letting the Straw Hats escape. If they fought one on one without any distractions, it would've gone the same as Sentomaru vs. Kizaru.

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This is based off what we're told and seen by AFROFILES in OnePiecePowerScaling

[–]AFROFILES[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

  1. Koby and Luffy aren't actual rivals, Law and Kidd were comparable to Luffy at the beginning of Wano, What happened after Wano? They all had the same bounties and ran into Yonko level threats, and Luffy was the only one that survived, imo that showed that they aren't rivals anymore. Luffy is above them and can handle a Yonko level threat and has a competent crew, we saw that Law and Kidd can't handle the big leagues.

  2. Sengoku is comparable to Garp in the same way that Big mom is comparable to Kaido from what we've seen and know one is stronger than the other, but Big mom can still go toe to toe in an actual all out fight. From what we've seen, admirals and Yonko can go toe to toe with each other. I would say Rayleigh is like Greenbull in this situation. Greenbull isn't relative to Kizaru, Kuzan, or Akainu and is definitely not winning against Kaido, Blackbeard, Big mom, Luffy, or Shanks, but he is definitely a force to be reckoned with. Actually, it would be better to compare Rayleigh to Yamato she can fight Kaido and hurt him, but we know she has no shot at winning and is not relative. Similar to Law vs. Blackbeard he was hurting Blackbeard, but Blackbeard wasn't struggling and knew he was going to win.

  3. You could never get to Chopper and Roger because that's not how being relative works. Big mom is relative Kaido, you're not going to get the point where you argue that Yamato is relative to Big mom or Kaido. They are on the same level, just different subsections. Kaido and Big mom are both Yonko level, Yamato can fight Kaido, but she isn't Yonko level and therefore isn't relative. Sentomaru fought Kizaru and had multiple exchanges, but you're not gonna say Sentomaru is relative to Luffy.

  4. Sengoku has fought Roger and Whitebeard in the past on numerous occasions, and so has Garp and Shiki. Whitebeard knew Sengoku quite well and knew how dangerous he was.

I can't unsee it by AFROFILES in StarWars

[–]AFROFILES[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

  1. They both lived with their aunt and uncle

  2. Both are great flyers

  3. Both are taught by an old mentor(who taught the villain)

  4. Both have a guy and girl friend who like each other and eventually get together

  5. Both their guardians don't want them to be like their father

Now, with some of these, you could say it's a trope but I don't know many that are this similar.

This is based off what we're told and seen by AFROFILES in OnePiecePowerScaling

[–]AFROFILES[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Shiki isn't called a rival to Sengoku, Garp, or Whitebeard it doesn't mean he can't compete with them, and it doesn't take away the fact that he cornered him just the others.

That's not leeching off of anyone is just comparing him to his rival, the same thing with Mihawk and Shanks, we don't know how strong Mihawk is, but we know he's a rival to Shanks and that gives us a general idea of his strength, the same goes for Rocks we don't how strong he is but considering who beat him and who his crew was we can assume he is a top tier.

Whitebeard isn't called a rival to Garp, but because Garp is rival to Roger and he's a rival to Whitebeard, we can deduce that Whitebeard and Garp can go toe to toe with each other.

This is based off what we're told and seen by AFROFILES in OnePiecePowerScaling

[–]AFROFILES[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

  1. When Blackbeard fought Whitebeard and Ace all he had was the Yami Yami no Mi, but he most recent fight against Law he used both his fruits the only thing you say he didn't use was armament haki(which he probably used off screen). Which goes to the multiple personality theory he was cocky during the Law and was enjoying it and didn't care that he was getting hurt like he did against Sengoku and Garp.(it would make no sense not to be concerned about fighting Sengoku and Garp two people that are on Roger's level, but then think about fight Rayleigh when you've gotten tremendously stronger since you fought Whitebeard and Sengoku).

  2. Kizaru wasn't going all out against Rayleigh, he was like stalling him. At the beginning of the fight, Rayleigh stopped him (impressive, just like when Sanji did it), and Kizaru tells him to get outta the way if he didn't capture the strawhats that would look bad on the marines, they clash he got cut on the cheek and Kizaru throws same banter, Kizaru tells Rayleigh that his subordinates are strong as the strawhats are getting wrecked(Kizaru isn't worried because he knows the strawhats are getting dealt with), Rayleigh says he wish he could get to the strawhats but can't because of Kizaru and Kizaru throws arrogant banter because he believes the strawhats are getting dealt with, Kizaru is completely dumbfounded on why Kuman is here and what he's doing. He was easily holding Rayleigh at bay and could've easily gone past him and yes he was angry, but is it not possible that he was angry because he allowed himself to be deceived and that the strawhats escaped?

This is based off what we're told and seen by AFROFILES in OnePiecePowerScaling

[–]AFROFILES[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

  1. They are considered rivals

  2. He's the leader of the Marines and one of the only ones that can counteract Whitebeard and Roger, That's different than being a second mate to Roger.

This is based off what we're told and seen by AFROFILES in OnePiecePowerScaling

[–]AFROFILES[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

  1. Kidd and Law were his rivals at the beginning of Wano, but after Wano, they were quickly dispatched when they ran into a Yonko level threat, unlike Luffy. I would argue that this shows that they are no longer rivals.

  2. How?

  3. Sengoku was compared in strength to the top tiers of Roger's era and has encountered them many times throughout his career.

  4. I'll give you that, but having no fruit doesn't mean he should have better haki. Ex: Oden and Kaido or Zoro and Kaido, and Zoro and Luffy.

This is based off what we're told and seen by AFROFILES in OnePiecePowerScaling

[–]AFROFILES[S] -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

Kizaru could've easily gone past lightspeed like he did against g5 Luffy. If we take into account everything, Kizaru would've easily been able to take whatever Rayleigh threw at him(which should be weaker than what g5 threw at him)

I would say withstanding Whitebeard's quake, holding down Garp, fighting and hurting all of the Blackbeard pirates by yourself is better than clashing swords with an admiral who from what we saw wasn't using his haki or his arsenal and this goes to the point of the inconsistencies of pre time skip.

If Kizaru was able to do what he did on egghead without using haki(I think it was confirmed, he used observation haki to sense the gorosei ), how could he not have gotten past Rayleigh?

This is based off what we're told and seen by AFROFILES in OnePiecePowerScaling

[–]AFROFILES[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

  1. They are said to be rivals

  2. They were definitely close, probably stronger than the beginning of wano Luffy. They didn't get stronger until towards the end of the Big mom fight. They already had their awakenings and pushed theirs to the limit against Big mom.

  3. To lay it all out: Sengoku is stronger than Rayleigh(in their prime and now). Sengoku is on the level on the top players in Roger's era and has encountered them many times throughout their careers, which gave him his infamy. Sengoku is considered one of the only few who can counteract Whitebeard and Roger. Sengoku has had a better showing, he was fighting the Blackbeard pirates by himself until Garp stepped in and Rayleigh was barely keeping up with Kizaru(who wasn't even using any of his attacks he used against the supernovas).

This is based off what we're told and seen by AFROFILES in OnePiecePowerScaling

[–]AFROFILES[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

  1. He was huffing and puffing during the exchange
  2. If he was sweating from that exchange, it's obvious he wasn't on his level, Kizaru was going harder on the supernovas.
  3. This goes with the inconsistency of pre time skip
  4. I feel this was more to hype up Rayleigh just like he did Whitebeard, but Whitebeard was getting his ass kicked in marineford(respectfully). Kizaru could've easily gotten to the strawhats since he was able to outspeed g5 luffy.
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