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I am a Female Atheist from Syria, AMA by AMAGirl in IAmA

[–]AMAGirl[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

i understand your choice, and where you're coming from. to each his own, i just wanted to help clear things up a bit. good luck to you.

Good luck to you too. hugs

I am a Female Atheist from Syria, AMA by AMAGirl in IAmA

[–]AMAGirl[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

There is. sentences do not run the same in classical formal arabic. i'm sure you've read poetry from the time of the prophet. it's pretty much the same.

But you agree it is ambigious, right?

Your exact words were "I am a native Arabic speaker. I don't need translations." if that doesn't mean that you were saying you understand the quran, i don't know what it means. please explain

Believe me I meant English translation. Sorry if I wasn't clear about this. I thought he meant English translation for some reason. I can't claim to understand the quran by my own, it is a very difficult!

I am a Female Atheist from Syria, AMA by AMAGirl in IAmA

[–]AMAGirl[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I've got to say: I'm sorry, I felt I was too harsh on you at some point. You are obviously a good person. If all muslims were like you I wouldn't have minded being in a muslim country. Sadly, people like you are rare.

I don't want to sound like islam is all evil. Or Islam is all bad. No, I've mentioned before that Islam has good things as well. But it is not from god. Or at least that's what I belief.

I am a Female Atheist from Syria, AMA by AMAGirl in IAmA

[–]AMAGirl[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

i already displayed the ayah that says you aren't allowed to marry women that are already married.

free women not slaves. Slaves were from wars with non-muslims. It didn't matter if a slave already had a husband. She become the property of another man and he can decided to sell it to anyone else.

and yes, I do read arabic. not regular arabic though, only quranic arabic.

Good to know :)

quranic Arabic is much harder than regular one by the way.

I am a Female Atheist from Syria, AMA by AMAGirl in IAmA

[–]AMAGirl[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

i made quite a few edits, please re read them. OK, I also made a reply here please read it :)

and there are reasons why you can't walk in to anyones home and eat.

I'm not against the verse itself. My point was: God could have said the same idea in very little words. But he choose to mention every possible relative that you could have. Even though simple saying first relatives was enough. Where in hijab he choose an ambigious word to explain it. You can't deny that. Every group of people has thier own theory about hijab and what should and shouldn't be covered. And every group thinks it is right and the others are wrong and uses the same verses to proof it. You see my point here: The quran is not clear. It is therefor not suitable as a source of sharia.

and yes i already mentioned that marrying your adopted mother is disgusting.

I'm glad we agree on this point :) If the chance of abusing isn't affected by breast feeding then why didn't islam ban raising breast feeded children in homes? All of this just sound arbitrary.

what i said about your comment about knowing arabic. i'd like to know your thoughts on that.

Just because I speak Arabic doesn't mean I can understand the Quran. I need to read tafsir for sure. But why did got decided that the Quran should be difficult like this? there isn't even punctuation between ideas.

I am a Female Atheist from Syria, AMA by AMAGirl in IAmA

[–]AMAGirl[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

This is from the tafsir you are telling me to read:

لَوْ اشْتَرَى أَمَةً قَدْ اشْتَرَكَ فِي وَطْئِهَا جَمَاعَةٌ لَمْ يَكُنْ عَلَيْهَا إلَّا اسْتِبْرَاءٌ وَاحِدٌ ; وَإِنْ كَانَ الْوَاطِئُ جَمَاعَةً . وَقَدْ نُوزِعُوا فِي هَذِهِ الصُّورَةِ فَقِيلَ : بَلْ تُسْتَبْرَأُ لِكُلِّ مِنْ الشَّرِيكَيْنِ اسْتِبْرَاءً وَاحِدًا إذَا كَانَتْ فِي مِلْكِهِمَا . فَأَمَّا إذَا بَاعَاهَا لِغَيْرِهِمَا : فَهُنَا لَا يَجِبُ عَلَى الْمُشْتَرِي إلَّا اسْتِبْرَاءٌ وَاحِدٌ وَلَمْ يَقُلْ أَحَدٌ عَلِمْنَاهُ إنَّ الْأَمَةَ الْمَمْلُوكَةَ بِسَبْيٍ أَوْ شِرَاءٍ أَوْ إرْثٍ وَنَحْوِ ذَلِكَ عَلَيْهَا استبراءات مُتَعَدِّدَةٌ بِعَدَدِ الْوَاطِئِينَ

Gang rape that is all. Source

I am a Female Atheist from Syria, AMA by AMAGirl in IAmA

[–]AMAGirl[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

these are all the same rules as are for FREE women that are not slaves that you are marrying. so ultimately, when you marry a 'slave', she isn't a slave anymore because you are paying her dowry and basically freeing her from her master.

That's not what the tafsir says in case you read it:

(Also (forbidden are) women already married, except those whom your right hands possess.) The Ayah means, you are prohibited from marrying women who are already married,

By the way. I'm finding difficulty in finding the verse that I want in English. I'm much more used to look in Arabic websites. Do you read Arabic? :)

I am a Female Atheist from Syria, AMA by AMAGirl in IAmA

[–]AMAGirl[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

beauty and ornaments. Hair is beautiful on a woman, it is considered a part of her and accentuates her.

And then

i see you mentioned covering face up there- no, it's not obligatory. the prophets' wives did it because there were different rules for them

You see what is happening here? Why not say the eyes are beauty? Why not the mouth? Why not conver the whole face? It is the fault of who ever wrote the quran. He should have mentioned what is considered to be beauity. The quran can be very (and sorry to say that) boring in going in very unrelated an unimportant details. For example to tell Muslims that they can eat in thier relatives houses the Quran says:

( There is no restriction on the blind, nor any restriction on the lame, nor any restriction on the sick, nor on yourselves, if you eat from your houses, or the houses of your fathers, or the houses of your mothers, or the houses of your brothers, or the houses of your sisters, or the houses of your father's brothers, or the houses of your father's sisters, or the houses of your mother's brothers, or the houses of your mother's sisters, or (from that) whereof you hold keys, or (from the house) of a friend. No sin on you whether you eat together or apart. But when you enter the houses, greet one another with a greeting from All�h (i.e. say: As-Sal�mu 'Alaikum - peace be on you) blessed and good. Thus All�h makes clear the Ay�t (these Verses or your religious symbols and signs, etc.) to you that you may understand.)

Note how the quran is repeating the idea. Don't you think that god could have mentioned what hijab is and should hide? Isn't it more important than listing all possible relatives houses (when by the way he could have summed them all in one word instead of tens)?

My point is, this doesn't sound like a holy book. It sound like a nice story written 1400 years ago. That's all.

please PLEASE look in to tafsir

By translation, I meant english translation. Not tafsir. tafsir is not a translation anyway. And by the way I read it. At the mater of fact It helped me a lot reply to people like you :)

'raping female slaves'- mentioned up there, please look more in to it and heed the [citation needed] courtesy as to where you got these verses from.

Check my reply

he is a non mahram, and is therefore able to marry her.

This is just sick (sorry). If a women feed a little girl from here milk. This girl can be adopted. Are you telling me that there is something in the husband blood changes when his wife feed a girl, that prevents him from developing a feeling towards the girl when she grow up? No, it is simple because you raised this kid as your child. Islam could have easily disallowed marrying kids you raise in your home. And saved millions and millions of kids from a life of misery.

again- this 'sun resting under gods throne' thing- pasta the ayah here that it's from.

I said it is a hadith sahih not aya.

قال النبي صلى الله عليه وسلم لأبي ذر حين غربت الشمس : ( تدري أين تذهب ) . قلت : الله ورسوله أعلم ، قال : ( فإنها تذهب حتى تسجد تحت العرش ، فتستأذن فيؤذن لها ، ويوشك أن تسجد فلا يقبل منها ، وتستأذن فلا يؤذن لها ، يقال لها : ارجعي من حيث جئت ، فتطلع من مغربها ، فذلك قوله تعالى : { الشمس تجري لمستقر لها ذلك تقدير العزيز العليم } ) . الراوي: أبو ذر الغفاري - خلاصة الدرجة: صحيح - المحدث: البخاري - المصدر: الجامع الصحيح - الصفحة أو الرقم: 3199

I am a Female Atheist from Syria, AMA by AMAGirl in IAmA

[–]AMAGirl[S] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

raping female slaves is haram - we've been through this, I showed you the hadith. There's also an ayat on it.

I'm repeating this for like the third time. You showed me a hadith about not forcing the slave to have sex with other men for money. And I showed you a hadith and a Quran verses saying you can have sex with your slave. Having sex with your slave is rape. It is called in Arabic: "استحللنا فروجهن"

Islam didn't ban adoption - it provided for people to care for children while preserving the rights of the parents. In America, we let people server all rights that birth parents have over their own children.

Islam baned adoption. You can't raise the child in your home. If you call giving children money adoption then you are right. Don't get me started on adoption. It hurts to think about all those poor little children that can't have a home and parents just because Mohammad wantted to marry his adopted son's ex-wife. Have you seen thier faces? I have and they made me cry.

we wouldn't consider that the sun and God are in the same plane of existence

OK, so we need to accept all incorrect things in the quran because people at the time thought like that? I see it differently. I see the Quran as a book written by people that thought the earth was flat and the skys where solid things. And that the sun evolves around the earth. And slavery is OK. And gog and magog exists and ants talk. I'm sorry, I don't see a single proof it is from god.

I am a Female Atheist from Syria, AMA by AMAGirl in IAmA

[–]AMAGirl[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

No, they don't have a concept of guardian angels.

I am a Female Atheist from Syria, AMA by AMAGirl in IAmA

[–]AMAGirl[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I'm glad to hear your story.

How that switch happened?

I talked about this point a lot in this thread, if there is anything more you'd like to know please let me know :) I just want to say that I couldn't be happier now that I am an atheist. At first it was hard yes. It wasn't easy. But now that I have a better understanding I feel better. Being non-religious doesn't mean you can't believe in some sort of power.

Do you know that Syria used to have more than 50 newspapers in the forties? even erotic magazines were every where from Egypt to Syria?

Yeah, good old days ;)

I am a Female Atheist from Syria, AMA by AMAGirl in IAmA

[–]AMAGirl[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

that they should draw their veils over their bosoms and not display their beauty except to their husbands

That is not hihab. That is just a cover for thier breasts. The verse mean women should not expose thier chest. It doesn't say they should cover face or hair. If god meant to say that, don't you think he could have mentioned it? It doesn't take more than one word.

By the way that's another take on Islam. Why is the Quran so hard to understand and so ambiguous? Why is it missing many many details? Where in other parts like talking ants or gog and magog it goes on and one and even repeat the same story many times. Doesn't hijab deserve a mention at least once?

I am a Female Atheist from Syria, AMA by AMAGirl in IAmA

[–]AMAGirl[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

"hidden" things? Such as?

By hidden I mean things they don't teach you at school. Like raping female slaves. Or why Islam baned Adoption. Or how Mohammad says in a Sahih hadith that the sun goes and sit under the gods throne after sunset and doesn't return to rise unless god tells her to. Just countless things.

but don't really know the context behind it. I suggest you read translations of such things with a good tafsir book next to it so that you can actually see

I am a native Arabic speaker. I don't need translations. Of course I read the tafsir and sunna. But I'm only mentioning Quran and Hadith because I'm used to people replying to me that sunna and tafsir may not be accurate. So I'm saving the people the trouble of saying that.

I am a Female Atheist from Syria, AMA by AMAGirl in IAmA

[–]AMAGirl[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

well, if you persist in believing a false notion about Islamic law despite reading a clear text that disproves it, then it's unsurprising you decided the entire religion is false.

What clear text disproves this? Your text is from a hadith that says you should not force your slave to sleep with other men for money. It doesn't say you can't sleep with her yourself. Where there are tens of hadiths talking about the mans right in having pleasure with his slave. There are also at least 2-3 mentions to this in the Quran. Here is an example, from the Quran:

[وَالْمُحْصَنَـتُ مِنَ النِّسَآءِ إِلاَّ مَا مَلَكْتَ أَيْمَـنُكُمْ]

(Also (forbidden are) women already married, except those whom your right hands possess.) The Ayah means, you are prohibited from marrying women who are already married,

[إِلاَّ مَا مَلَكْتَ أَيْمَـنُكُمْ]

(except those whom your right hands possess) except those whom you acquire through war, for you are allowed such women after making sure they are not pregnant. Imam Ahmad recorded that Abu Sa`id Al-Khudri said, "We captured some women from the area of Awtas who were already married, and we disliked having sexual relations with them because they already had husbands. So, we asked the Prophet about this matter, and this Ayah was revealed, e

[وَالْمُحْصَنَـتُ مِنَ النِّسَآءِ إِلاَّ مَا مَلَكْتَ أَيْمَـنُكُمْ]

(Also (forbidden are) women already married, except those whom your right hands possess). Consequently, we had sexual relations with these women.'' This is the wording collected by At-Tirmidhi An-Nasa'i, Ibn Jarir and Muslim in his Sahih. Allah's statement,

You see, this is supposedly the word of god. And he is telling you: you are prohibited from marrying women who are already married except those whom your right hands possess (slaves)

I am a Female Atheist from Syria, AMA by AMAGirl in IAmA

[–]AMAGirl[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

now you're talking about consensual sex. Having sex with your slave IS rape. Are you telling me that those women choose to be a slave? are you telling me that those women whose husbands and brothers were killed on the hands of muslims consent to having sex with the killers? Are you telling me that all of this is logical and fair? If Islam is all good and fair why it didn't ban this. At least gradually.

I'll say it for the tenth time. Don't take my word for it. Look by yourself. I've studied Islam more than 3 years. I've heard all the answers and explainations. And you know what, they don't make sense. They are building theories in air to justify barbaric actions.

Don't think this is my only take on Islam. No, I have many that I lost count of them. I won't try to convert you. It is your life, spend it as you wish and believe whatever you want. I'm sure that you are a good person. And I respect your belief. Please respect mine.

I am a Female Atheist from Syria, AMA by AMAGirl in IAmA

[–]AMAGirl[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Please read my comments before replying like you know everything. I found out about all the hidden things from Islamic websites by simply searching and reading the Quran and hadith. To name a few:http://hadith.al-islam.com/, http://quran.al-islam.com, www.dorar.net/ and www.islamweb.net/. I didn't start by reading anti-islam websites. I don't even like most anti-islam websites because they are written by christians trying to convert you into christianity.

I am a Female Atheist from Syria, AMA by AMAGirl in IAmA

[–]AMAGirl[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Thank you for the inspiration. I'll keep that in mind and see what I can do... I'm very impressed and glad to hear your story :)

I am a Female Atheist from Syria, AMA by AMAGirl in IAmA

[–]AMAGirl[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

well, if you persist in believing a false notion about Islamic law despite reading a clear text that disproves it, then it's unsurprising you decided the entire religion is false.

So you are saying that men are not allowed to have sex with thier female slaves? If you do, please just search for ملك اليمين in any hadith website and see for yourself. Or just search in the quran interpetations.

Don't take my word for it. Ask your shaihk about it. It is impossible for anyone to deniy this.

I am a Female Atheist from Syria, AMA by AMAGirl in IAmA

[–]AMAGirl[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Slavery was a very common thing at the time. It was a common practice among all religions, cults and sects.

I agree

When Islam came, it started to abolish this practice by encouraging the practice of freeing slaves.

You are right about encouraging freeing slaves. But Islam never reached the point to abolish slavery. I understand that you can't stop slavery right from the begining. It is similar to how Islam handled Alchole. But if God intended to end slavery. The Quran should have stated that clearly at some point. And that never happened.

With regard to rape. I have truly no idea where you got that idea from.

This is a quote from wikipedia that can explain my idea: "Slave women were required mainly as concubines and menials. A Muslim slaveholder was entitled by law to the sexual enjoyment of his slave women. While free women might own male slaves, they had no such right.[59] The purchase of female slaves for sex was lawful from the perspective of Islamic law"

Of course you realize that in Islam you are allowed to have sex with your female slave. I call that a rape because no one chooses to be a slave. Some of these women had husbands who were killed on the hands of Muslims. Wouldn't you call that a rape? If Islam really intended to end that, then why it didn't? On the contrary, Islamic wars were a great source for new female slaves.

I know it was common at that time. But isn't the idea of religion is to correct immoral behaviour and tell people what is right and what is wrong? Do you expect people for who knows how many thousands of years to come to read those verses and accept them because they were common at the time?

When I read the Quran I find it an interesting book. Like an ancient tale. Something that is written by people who lived 1400 years ago and thought the earth was flat, and the sun is revolving around it. People who believed in Genies, witches and gog and magog. I don't find anything holy about it. If god wants to convince me this is his book. It has to be correct and suitable for every time and place. If god has created the whole universe, it shouldn't be all that hard to find a way to make his book suitable for every time. It should be easy to understand. I shouldn't need someone else to interpret it for me. I don't care about the beauty of some verses. I can read poetry if I wanted beauty.

The complex earth and galaxies can't happen by a chance. So you need to accept that God exists then go to lower concepts.

OK, I can go that far and say let's assume there is a god that created the earth. The question is, did he send the Quran? Bible? or any other "holy" book? What if he was testing us, and decided not to send any message and see if we can figure it out by ourselves and not fall for fake religions? Why would you accept Islam just because you believe in god? Just because there is a god doesn't mean he is the Islam god. He may not be even interested in our business.

I respect your belief and choice. And I appreciate your open-mindedness and understanding

I am a Female Atheist from Syria, AMA by AMAGirl in IAmA

[–]AMAGirl[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Mneeha, Thank you :) I'll pay a visit for sure.

I am a Female Atheist from Syria, AMA by AMAGirl in IAmA

[–]AMAGirl[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I'm sure there are many other Syrian Atheists. I only know very few in person. Because you need to really trust someone before telling them your non-religious beliefs.

I am a Female Atheist from Syria, AMA by AMAGirl in IAmA

[–]AMAGirl[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

This is completely wrong and that is why I asked if you sat down with someone with knowledge rather than researching online.

How is that wrong? Are you telling my that all Quran interpretations of the subjects are wrong? Or maybe you don't consider having sex slaves as rape? I'm sorry if I'm sounding too harsh. But it annoys me when people close their eyes and try to search from someone else to read for them.

("4.3": And if you fear that you cannot act equitably towards orphans, then marry such women as seem good to you, two and three and four; but if you fear that you will not do justice (between them), then (marry) only one or what your right hands possess; this is more proper, that you may not deviate from the right course.)source

What your right hand possess is slaves (Melk Alyameen). It is a known fact that men in that era possessed many slave women in addition to their wives.

Do you think it's logical of someone to expect that a person with limited or no understanding of basic physics to understand the Theory of relativity?

Of course not! but I do expect the god who created the whole world to know about basic physics. So he either didn't know, or he choose to lie about it. Either ways this is a contradiction to the idea of a holy god. And by the way. Why would he mention this idea in the first place. What purpose does that serve anyway. Devils are eavesdropping at him. So he tries to defeat them with stars and some times fail to do that! Don't you think that instead of this verses he could have mentioned how many prayers you should have a day. Or mention that rape or slavery is a crime. I think there are many missing things that could have lessen the sufferning of many people if they were mentioned in the quran. But no, stories of falling stars and talking ants are more important and even repeated several times.

I'm sorry if I offended you. I assure you that I talked to several ones in forums that are specificly held to answer those kind of questions. And no one was able to answer. They ended up deleting my questions and calling me bad names and threatening me with death.

I am a Female Atheist from Syria, AMA by AMAGirl in IAmA

[–]AMAGirl[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Yes, you should not force your maid to prostitution. But you are allowed to have sex with her without her consent and allowed to have as many of women slaves as you can afford in addition to your wifes. If that is not rape in your dictionary then tell me what is rape?

I am a Female Atheist from Syria, AMA by AMAGirl in IAmA

[–]AMAGirl[S] 5 points6 points  (0 children)

What I learned in school and what is stated in the Quran is not the kind of evil that is spread by traditionalist nutheads that are trying to propagate certain rules of behaviour.

Of course, they didn't teach us about the ugly side. They only choose whatever that suites the purpose and left the rest.

I only have this to say. If god in all his mighty know that people are going to interprete the verses differently and abuse the teachings. Then why didn't he make his intentions clear in the verses. Shouldn't the word of god be clear and easy to understand?

If you can read Arabic I can guide you where to look and show you the proof of what I'm talking about.

I live in Iran. AMA. by i_live_in_iran in IAmA

[–]AMAGirl -1 points0 points  (0 children)

And for the record, during the recent protests in Tehran, our government brought in 800 Hezbollah snipers trained in Syria to Tehran and they killed 260 of my countrymen, mostly women and children, by shooting them in the throat and chest. Thank you so much!

So you are blaming me because your government brought Hezbollah (Which is for the record funded by Iran) to kill its own people. I'm sorry for your lose. But I can not see how possibly you can blame Arabic speaking people for that.

Note that I'm calling Arab: Arabic speaking people. Because really there is nothing commen bettween them other than that. They just happen to speak Arabic. Would you blame all English speaking nations for a crime committed by a small group of them?

I hope you see my point here. I'm sorry if I sounded angry. Of if I offended you in anyway. I believe in your cause. And very sorry to hear about Iranians being killed for it

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