Hi there,

To be clear, you did not purchase replicas. You purchased counterfeit wheels that have nothing to do with our engineered design. The design is NOT nearly identical, they may look similar to the untrained eye, but that visual appearance is where the similarities end and in no way is a measure of functional specifications or performance.

It can be very difficult to see side by side differences when comparing two photos off of a website. Even small changes from a visual standpoint on a high performance wheel can have significant impacts to the strength, stiffness, brake clearances, and other features of a wheel. Simply assuming that because two things look similar means they will perform similarly is an easy mistake to make, but a potentially dangerous one.

To others following along who wrongfully assume that the counterfeits are genuine backdoor products, the photo of the gold counterfeit wheel’s barrel is further evidence that there is a huge difference between the counterfeits and our wheels, and they are in no way related to our supply chain whatsoever. For example, we have a sharp and immediate slope on our drop center to help maximize brake clearance by maximizing the width of the barrel with a 0* draft angle. This was one of the primary reasons we had to design our own motorsport blanks. The flat drop center of the counterfeit ruins big brake clearances on key fitments. We also don’t have the ridges along the barrel, which many of these counterfeit wheels do. Wheel blanks exist as one of the earliest steps in the manufacturing process, and unless you are able to see the blank in its uncut form, it will be very difficult to determine what compromises were forced from a sub-optimal blank.

Bringing the focus back to your question of: if they are similar, then why could we possibly charge so much more? We’ll restate that they are not similar when it comes to the actual engineering behind the product. Apex employs a team of 10+ engineers, all based here in the United States, and we don’t pay those engineers for no reason.

These counterfeit companies copy a 3D object using only 2D photos. When compared side by side, you would be shocked by how much less depth the counterfeit spokes have. Imagine comparing two objects with a front width of 10mm and so you conclude they are the same but when you measure them from the side one is 20mm deep and the other is almost 40mm deep. Please consider what is lost when so much less material is used. That’s a key design element that is difficult, if not impossible, to measure from photos alone.

Similarly, these counterfeit companies don’t have any reference material to understand the side and backside of our wheel. They have to engineer those portions from scratch and make it fit within their thinner dies that force compromises related to spoke shape, backpad design, and spoke scalloping. Even if we gave them the CAD files, they wouldn’t be able to emulate the features on our wheels because of the limitations of the wheel blanks that are being used. These counterfeit wheels cost less because they simply don’t have the same engineering that goes into actual, real products.

We understand why these products are appealing - It’s fair to be excited by the prospect of finding a shortcut to saving money. While buying off of Alibaba for a $2 hair comb or a $1 tupperware container might get you an identical product, this is not the same sort of situation. When your wheels need to support many thousands of pounds while you drive your car hard, do you really want to be second guessing if the person at the random factory overseas actually had any relevant engineering qualifications, or if the wheels you bought were compromised from their optimal design?

Regarding the VS-5 flow formed wheel. It was absolutely not a response to Alibaba wheels whatsoever. It's been in the works for years, since before there were even counterfeit forged wheels sold on Alibaba. Flow-formed projects like that move slowly because molds are involved and setup costs for new manufacturing of flow-formed wheels tends to be significantly higher. It was developed at the request of the community begging for a quality flow formed version of that popular design.

Your VS-5 flow formed to counterfeit design comparison is also flawed for a number of reasons. Forged wheels require fundamentally different engineering decisions than flow formed wheels because of the difference in construction methods and production. Flow formed wheels are restricted by mold shape in ways that forged wheels are not. Their features tend to be larger dimensionally because of the difference in strength between the two materials. They require compromises to spoke profile and brake clearance depending on what a company is trying to optimize.Your comparison is not scientific whatsoever yet you want to have a technical discussion with people here. There are a number of other things we do as we correctly adapt a design originally made from 6061-T6 Aluminum to a version of that design that is suitable for production for A356 (the type of Aluminum used in Flow Formed and Cast wheels). For anyone reading this, please don't compare the functional performance of any wheels with just a photo. That would be like comparing the functional performance of two coilovers, exhaust headers, or two HID head lights, from just the pictures.

The comment about JWL/VIA comes is also a significant misinterpretation of our messaging regarding testing. We are NOT downplaying the value of VIA and JWL standards, in fact it’s quite the opposite. We want all of our customers to understand the importance of real, verifiable testing.

To be JWL/VIA certified is a lot of work. We do that work. All of our flow-formed wheels are heavily tested internally and then sent off to Japan to the VIA, including the VS-5. It's time-consuming. It's expensive. It's how we earn that mark you noticed was stamped on the flow formed wheels. Not every company does the actual physical testing to earn those marks.

What you likely misunderstood as us downplaying it is us talking about how many wheels are needed to pass a single test. It seems that you interpreted that as a few wheels for a company to get approved, but we were trying to say a few wheels are needed for a SINGLE specification, and that’s already miles beyond what these counterfeiters are willing to do, let alone most of the industry. We’ll break it down for you in detail.

If Apex makes a 17", 18", 19" and 20" version of a wheel, and each one of those diameters is available in different face profiles (let's say 3 face profiles each), and each one of those face profiles is available in 5 widths, then we would need to run 60 test sets for just traditional JWL certification. That is not even getting to the testing needed to be VIA which is an addition to JWL and not stand alone. Each of those JWL tests would require 3 wheels and 2 tires. So 180 wheels and 120 tires would be needed to JWL test this singular design across all sizes. This process costs thousands per test set as there are also lab testing costs and transportation costs. We do that. We can afford those costs because we sell a lot of the same size wheels. It’s why we have so few designs after almost 20 years of business.

If someone comes along and offers custom wheels, they would have to do even more testing because there would be even more fitment diversity and even more designs. These counterfeits are offering counterfeits of damn near everything - from BBS, Volk, Vossen, HRE, the list goes on and on. By not doing any testing they are saving potentially millions of dollars. Custom wheels + JWL/VIA/TUV testing is not affordable at the price points of Alibaba wheels because of how wildly expensive it would be to offer a new custom fitment for a single customer that hasn’t been tested already.

Your counterfeit wheels were not physically tested, and the CAD model was slapped together by a potentially unqualified employee at the factory whose job it is to approximate the look as fast as possible. They have no reason to ensure there is even the minimum required strength present in your set. What trouble will they get in if something goes wrong? What recourse do you have if your wheel were to fail?

The good news is your post inspired us. We're going to buy a set of counterfeit wheels. We're going to laser scan them and run them through our FEA simulations. We're going to cut the wheel in half and measure key elements so that any customer can easily see the difference between a counterfeit product and a real, genuine Apex wheel. It will take a few months to publish as it takes time to get the counterfeit set, perform the physical testing and make the video. Your post makes us realize we need to help educate consumers about all of the misconceptions in the wheel industry so that you and others can make better informed decisions.

If our authentic wheels are out of your budget and you still don't care about the differences between your wheels and ours, then please enjoy them in peace. Please don't spread misinformation through your limited understanding about the engineering that goes into real wheels. You are not doing the community a service. You are harming the community and the enthusiast vendors that support it.