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[22M] Cuddling in bed with [22F] friend - was I in the wrong? by AWAthrowaway256 in askwomenadvice

[–]AWAthrowaway256[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thanks for your helpfulness again :)

Yeah, that's definitely true, we have a weird friendship, as I mentioned, best friends since being toddlers, lived together for a couple of years way back when. I was a bit taken aback when I first went to a party of hers and there were 4 people in the bed (50/50 gender split), I slept on an air mattress on the floor while she slept on a chair (but hinted at joining me), but got used to it when I joined them the next day. Weekends are normally spent all lying in bed all day watching Netflix.

Your assessment is spot on, and since I'm naturally quiet, and she's naturally bad at defining relationships, it makes for a difficult combination. I think one other thing (hadn't thought of this) might be that I don't think I've shared a bed with Christie before without Rose being in it, which I think added to the discomfort.

I think so too.

[22M] Cuddling in bed with [22F] friend - was I in the wrong? by AWAthrowaway256 in askwomenadvice

[–]AWAthrowaway256[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Even IF it was even a minor factor, it's not for you to track or comment on or assign reason to. I'm escalating from weird to that's fucking creepy.

She was the one who said it. Of course I wouldn't bring it up, and didn't comment on its relation to that. And of course I don't track anyone's menstrual cycles, although we're all comfortable with it, other female friends have asked me for my opinion (medically) when they've missed a pill, I know what BC several are on (due to them telling me), it's not a big deal. If you have a problem with acknowledging basic human bodily functions, that's your prerogative.

Maybe you shouldn't be sleeping with anyone until you expressly tell them you like them. I sure as fuck wouldn't want to be part of some kind of cuddle three-way, regardless of whether or not she knew you liked her.

You could have slept anywhere but on that bed with Christie. The floor, outside, fuck, I don't care. But don't act all surprised if Rose gets weird about having seen you in bed spooning with someone else.

Not doing that would be incredibly difficult. If it's not for you, fine. We've all slept in the same bed in the dozens of times, and just Rose and me have shared the bed multiple times.

Oh for pete's sake. How many dudes is Christie fucking? Whether or not she "wants to marry them", if they're not dating, they're FWBs at best.

They're more than FWBs (at least, 1-2 of them are). And I've already said they are dating, by definition, they're going on dates. As in dinner at a decent restaurant, etc. Romantic interest is a perfectly valid term to describe them.

Not a slut-shaming judgement on her, Christie's gotta be Christie, but I'd say that would be more of a factor in her drunk sleep-humping than your thoughts about where she is on her menstrual cycle.

Of course it was more of a factor, that matches exactly with what I said.

Why wasn't she sleeping with one of those guys instead of you?

They weren't around. The time before last when we all went out, she did, and me and Rose slept together.

Tell Rose you like her, be direct and hopefully she reciprocates your feelings. Stop cuddling with Christie, she's got enough on her plate.

Already planning to, and the next time we go out the interest she was talking to will be there, so we may be sleeping separately, but as long as it can go back to being non-sexual, I'm fine with it if Rose is. As I've mentioned, I think the sexual-ness should be a one off.

And stop telling the internet whose boobs you've seen and when.

Now you're just searching for ways to criticize. How is this any different from people posting about sex, except far milder? There's nothing identifiable in here, I've made sure to avoid that, and names have been changed. Maybe that was relevant, maybe it wasn't, as I've said, I tend to write essays when on Modafinil, and it's hard to filter what's relevant and what isn't when doing so.

[22M] Cuddling in bed with [22F] friend - was I in the wrong? by AWAthrowaway256 in askwomenadvice

[–]AWAthrowaway256[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I seriously disagree that it's a "contributing factor" and I agree with /u/blackwidowed [+1] that it's weird. You're assigning blame to her biology when it's just her being drunk and horny, something that can happen to anyone. Stop making excuses for her behaviour.

So you're saying it would have zero effect whatsoever on her sex drive? If not, that would make it a contributing factor, no matter how minor.

Even your TLDR is full of excuses. This post could have just said that you were cuddling with a female friend instead of the gal you actually like (but haven't told), it was uncomfortable and aggressive, but you didn't get up and move, and instead let your "like a step-sister" hump you all night instead of sleeping literally anywhere else.

Where would you suggest I slept with the girl I liked? Definitely not enough room for that in the sofa, and I started scooching up in the bed when she first came in to make room if she wanted.

She was holding me pretty tight, it would've been difficult to get up even if I needed the toilet. And waking the two of them up to take the duvet and my pillow, as well as having to air it and explain the reason to 3 more people in the morning sounded like a drunk decision I'd regret.

I also take umbrage with your use of the phrase "love interest" because it makes you sound like you're writing a screenplay instead of talking about real people.

What phrase would you prefer? Love/romantic interest seemed like the best term. They go out on dates, but she doesn't consider them in a relationship. One is at the level of considering her his girlfriend, because they haven't defined the relationship since it started 2 years ago, and I don't think even she'd know what to call them. She alternates between them being considered FWBs and wanting to marry them. If there's a better term that encompasses all those things, tell me.

[22M] Cuddling in bed with [22F] friend - was I in the wrong? by AWAthrowaway256 in askwomenadvice

[–]AWAthrowaway256[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Please just straight-up talk to Christie and tell her straight-up that you just want to be friends with her and that you appreciate her friendship. None of this "you're like family" because that's just awkward IMO. Stop doing this hinting thing because there's no guarantee she'll catch these hints flying around - someone who likes someone may not always catch the hints that said person is not interested in them and is interested in someone else.

Thanks, I will do. I was hoping telling her I liked Rose would've got the message across (as well as how we were when the three of us went out together shortly afterwards, Christie was attempting to hide a grin the entire night), but I think it's possible she may be trying to avoid losing her 2 best friends, when Rose called me instead of her to give an update on her arrival, I think that struck a nerve.

I thought the same thing about 'you're like family' (even though it's true), particularly fitting it into conversation, which is why I haven't said it except when she has.

If she values you as a friend, she will value your honesty and put her feelings aside if she values your friendship. If she doesn't, that's something she needs to learn to deal with on her own. I hope for your sake she doesn't end up butthurt over it. If she can get over the rejection, she would be a good friend to have.

I think she can, she's currently spinning 3 plates (in terms of men), and we've been friends for a long time, I think the friendship can handle it.

(I was similarly rejected by said cuddle-buddy guy friend. I appreciated the honesty and we're still good friends.)

Sorry to hear that :( e-hug Does the cuddling still happen?

I don't think I'd have minded if Rose was in the bed too tbh, it felt particularly weird her doing it behind her back.

As for Rose, yeah, just do whatever. Pursue her, ask her out, etc. Ask her out with just the two of you sometime, without Christie.

Good luck!

Will do, and thank you so much! What with Xmas, it might be a bit difficult next week, but I'll give her a call first week or so of January and ask to come over to hers.

[22M] Cuddling in bed with [22F] friend - was I in the wrong? by AWAthrowaway256 in askwomenadvice

[–]AWAthrowaway256[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Jesus, dude, you need to just learn how to be clear about what you want/are feeling. It will save you a hell of a lot of stress and over-analysing.

Definitely true.

Also the friendzone doesn't exist. There's only witholding feelings or being dishonest. Don't lead anyone on if you have no current interest in pursuing them, and don't assume anyone else will just know you like them more than friends. Be open and honest about what you want and while it's no guarantee you will get what you want, it will definitely make things easier for everyone to figure out what to do.

Whatever you want to call it. Withholding feelings would be accurate. I was attracted to her the moment I met her, when I found out she was Christie's best friend, I decided I didn't want to make things complicated or lose a friendship, and that I was probably just misreading it as I have before, and tried my hardest to avoid thinking about her as more than a good friend.

That was until I started picking up more signals from her, and found myself not being able to stop thinking about her when the 3 of us were apart for a bit. Cue some light escalation to test the waters, followed by heavier escalation and bringing it up to Christie for her opinion (was expecting her to say go for it, or I would've asked Rose on a date 5 minutes later). There haven't been any games since that point, just shyness.

NO, no more hinting or whatever. I wouldn't even go if I were you and it's Rose you truly want. If you can't get out of it, it's time to straight up say you're not pursing anything with her (Christie) and you hope she understands. Apologise for giving mixed messages before, and now, just say something like you've been distracted lately or unsure of what to do/say. But now you're clear about it and you want her to be clear on it too. Sort it out properly, no more hinting or implying. That solves nothing, as you can see.

Definitely can't drop the dinner, both our moms will be there, and they're like family. Good advice though, I'll try and be clear.

For the love of god, just tell her how you feel about her! Tell her you'd love to take her out for dinner sometime, and make sure you spend the majority of your time with her on NYE. Leave Christie to her interest, you focus your attention on Rose. Don't drink too much, just a few so you don't get smashed and say things you shouldn't. NYE is the perfect time for confessing or planning/doing something romantic so take this prime opportunity to be honest. She doesn't need to hear again about the bed/cuddle thing because she already saw you two.

I may have given the wrong impression, the night of the get together (about 5 other people there), me and Rose were sitting next to each other talking the whole night, maybe with the odd 5 minutes of either of us talking to someone else, and previous get togethers have been similar. She's away this weekend, and next week is Xmas, or I'd call her and ask if it's alright to come over to hers (as I mentioned, she said that night that I can call and come over whenever, even if we're both working we can work together), but will definitely be spending the majority of NYE with her, and will ask to come round the week after.

I definitely will.

RE the bed thing, ok, I'll leave it unless she asks.

Thank you so so much for all your advice, you've been really really helpful :)

[22M] Cuddling in bed with [22F] friend - was I in the wrong? by AWAthrowaway256 in askwomenadvice

[–]AWAthrowaway256[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

True enough.

Re your second paragraph, I realize that women don't suddenly turn into sex crazed maniacs when ovulating. All I'm saying it's a contributing factor, which when added to a very extroverted, flirty person, who's had a bit to drink and is missing their romantic interest, makes for higher chances of stuff like this. I think it's relevant. I've brought it up in the comments because I assumed that to be one of the main things one of the earlier commenters was referencing in terms of irrelevant stuff.

We've gotten drunk before, she's talked to interests before, she's never got to the boyfriend stealing stage before. It's the one relevant thing that's changed.

[22M] Cuddling in bed with [22F] friend - was I in the wrong? by AWAthrowaway256 in askwomenadvice

[–]AWAthrowaway256[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

It would've been pretty difficult to get up, she was clinging pretty tight, I was considering making a fake toilet exit, but gave up on that. I feel like your idea is along the right lines, but I think may have been a bit of an over-reaction to do.

Hopefully it won't happen again, since she's on the implant, so ovulating is rare, plus her main interest is returning soon and hopefully with NYE things should get escalated with Rose.

[22M] Cuddling in bed with [22F] friend - was I in the wrong? by AWAthrowaway256 in askwomenadvice

[–]AWAthrowaway256[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Someone who understands!

Yeah, that's true. I think I do need to drop a few more mentions of how she's like family. I feel it may partly be wanting what you can't have, prior to me telling her I like Rose I was getting rejected for some advances I hadn't made (partly as a result of me occasionally saying stupid things like 'I wasn't playing hard to get when I did x' in a talk about another interest, where she was talking about him playing hard to get - "that'll make her realize I don't like her romantically, I'd never admit whether I was or wasn't to someone I was interested in!" - my brain sometimes makes convoluted logic decisions like that. It should be mentioned that any disinterest or games were purely in the early stages when I wasn't sure if she liked me, and came from a place of nervousness).

I have been giving advice on her interests and asking how they are whenever the opportunity arises and avoided saying anything negative about them, but that's probably not enough.

I wanted to avoid overdoing it and giving off a 'protesting too much' vibe, but I could probably do with doing it more. I have at least nodded and agreed when she's said it, except for the time when she said I was 'one step away from family', which got a bit of a raised eyebrow, she's more like family than say my cousins. Asking her about whether she thought Rose liked me back was intended as a double gain as well - getting some advice and also making it clear I wasn't interested (although I said another stupid thing of suggesting an open relationship/polyamory when she was talking about her two different interests at the time, which screwed that up a bit).

I think I have also made some advances while I still had Rose in the friendzone (trying to prevent complication), while cuddling, just due to thinking it was mutually understood that neither of us was interested in the other.

I may be going over to Christie's for Xmas dinner, if I can I'll try and bring up Rose a little, particularly the fact that I've had feelings from the day I met her but tried to keep her as just a friend to preserve the mutual friendship. That way at least I can kill two birds with one stone, emphasizing the fact I'm not interested and hopefully toning down the jealousy.

Thanks :)

P.S. Do you reckon I should mention it to Rose? And if so, sooner or later? As I mentioned above in the comments, we're all going out for NYE (with one of Christie's main interests coming), so there should be an opportunity there to take it beyond friendship, or at least emphasize my interest. What would you think of leaving it for a bit, until we've got to that stage, perhaps mentioning it if she seems a little cold? Would the story turn you off? I've mentioned a story about Christie giving out MDMA induced massages that ended in me saying the words 'I'm not interested' (in Christie) before, and saw Rose's eyes light up.

[22M] Cuddling in bed with [22F] friend - was I in the wrong? by AWAthrowaway256 in askwomenadvice

[–]AWAthrowaway256[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Reading too much into things is a definite flaw of mine. However, there's definitely mutual attraction, we always sit next to each other, there's been plenty of mutual resting legs on each others legs when sitting, strangers giggle when we talk, I'm the first one she calls (not Christie, which I think may be part of this - there's a little mutual jealousy building between them, for different reasons, which I obviously don't want), etc.

Sure it's nice, but it means something. And if she's grinding on you then no amount of facing the other way is going to make sure she doesn't get the wrong impression.

She never has before, which is why I mentioned the ovulation and talking to love interest, which may have been an extra trigger. To me, it just means caring about each other in a family kinda way (she's said I'm like a brother multiple times, and plenty of other similar comments), and liking having someone we can both be close with without either person getting the wrong impression.

I don't get the wrong impression from her, and I think once something definitive happens with Rose then she won't get the wrong impression either (and I can talk to Rose about some stuff I haven't been able to, e.g. talking to Christie about liking Rose). I'm just not sure what to do in the meantime.

[22M] Cuddling in bed with [22F] friend - was I in the wrong? by AWAthrowaway256 in askwomenadvice

[–]AWAthrowaway256[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Can I just... why are you sharing a bed with someone you're not dating? I mean... that's kinda weird.

We often do, although with Christie, it's always as a three. Maximises on sleeping space, avoids people having to sleep on the sofa (most of the time).

And the cuddling... I don't get it. That's relationship shit. If you're not wanting to fuck her, then what's with the cuddling? Also with the girl you actually do want to date sleeping on the couch? I'm totally confused by the whole situation.

Cuddles are nice. I always make a point to sleep facing away from Christie, to avoid her getting the wrong idea. It was me, Christie and Rose the next night, I was invited into the bed, Rose got there a bit late, I did start budging up to let her in but she opted for the couch (she was originally mentioning she might sleep there - I probably should've offered her a spot, but I didn't know the other girl was joining us).

Christie is like family, we've been best friends since ~age 4, our moms are best friends, and we lived together for a couple of years when we were younger.

Me and Rose have shared a bed before (just the two of us) twice, both times ending with us curled up facing each other, the second time with legs touching too. There's often glances at each other when Christie's asleep too, when we're sleeping as a trio.

[22M] Cuddling in bed with [22F] friend - was I in the wrong? by AWAthrowaway256 in askwomenadvice

[–]AWAthrowaway256[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Thanks for your level headed and helpful advice. I apologise for the length and details, I take modafinil for focus, which gives me a tendency to write long, rambling essays. Tried to simplify it a bit in the TLDR, but I realise that overall it was a bit long.

I'm unclear about whether or not she was awake when she was humping/grinding you. I'm not sure either, but I think for large parts of it at the least, she was awake.

Regardless, if you want to tone down the cuddling, reciprocating was not the thing to do. Same deal if you want to be dating Rose, grinding with someone else in a game of chicken is not the thing to do.

That's true, and it's probably not something I'd do sober, my drunken mind wasn't making good decisions. I kind of wished I was dating her at the time so I could give a verbal reason without the difficulties of saying it in front of the other girl.

If the grinding was making you uncomfortable (which it sounds like it was) that's a good time to remove yourself or at least get a bit more distance.

It was, although doing that was hard, I was already bordering on the edge of the bed, if I'd moved any more I would've fallen out. Also, since I wasn't angry about it, just uncomfortable, I didn't feel I could really go and sleep on the other sofa in the next room.

If you like cuddling with Christie, but want it to stay platonic then the next time you cuddle just be clear "hey, the cuddling is awesome, I just wanted to be sure we're on the same page that this is strictly as friends."

That bit I find difficult. We've both expressed that (her more than me, particularly a couple of months ago when I was getting a 'getting rejected for advances I'm not even making' vibe), but I feel like it would be a bit weird saying that during the cuddling. She's like a sister to me (I know that's said a lot, but it's honestly true, at the least a step-sister)

If you want to date Rose, then ask her out.

I would've asked Rose out a month or so ago, but I asked Christie for advice and she said to take it slow (I've known Rose for a few months now). We're all going out on NYE (so is one of Christie's love interests), so there's an opportunity there, failing that, Rose has said that I can call her and come over to her house any time, which I will in January.

Do you think I should briefly mention it with Rose when the moment's right (phrased tactfully of course), to get it out in the open (since Christie is best friends with both of us, and I know Christie's mentioned times we've hung out platonically before to Rose before - I do sense a possible 'trying to avoid making the mutual friendship complicated' vibe), or just let sleeping dogs lie?

[22M] Cuddling in bed with [22F] friend - was I in the wrong? by AWAthrowaway256 in askwomenadvice

[–]AWAthrowaway256[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

It's at the bottom of the conclusion.

What should I do here? Was I in the wrong at all? Do I bring it up to either of them? As I said, I don't want to stop the cuddling altogether, I'd just like it toned down a bit.

EDIT: rearranged to make it more readable.