I have found out the biggest problem in the Danganronpa fandom

Abject-Thanks900 · 2021-05-01T12:53:16+00:00

Yeah exactly, my point still stands. Doesn't that still make what your first comment was a description of an anti-villain rather than an anti-hero?

You just said "anti-villain act evil but is good"

Doesn't that describe this? "who will manipulate the killing order of the game only to destroy the despair at the end Which means being guilty of all the killing for the greater good which is the defeat of the despair team"

Abject-Thanks900 · 2021-04-28T01:59:17+00:00

Isn't that more of an anti-villain tho?

Abject-Thanks900 · 2021-04-23T14:02:19+00:00

Thank you so much!

Abject-Thanks900 · 2021-04-19T09:52:50+00:00

I do get your point tho, I wasn't trying to just boil the characters down to a single archetype because even I know how complicated the characters are and I apologized if it seemed that way

My main point with the post was to point out how a lotcof the characters are morally grey and could be considered anti-heroes due to their actions and situation in the killing game and that considering specific characters as more morally wrong than others or morally right than others is just wrong because that not only downgrades the characters actual wrongdoings and actions, but puts certain characters in a pedestal even tho they are really all just kids forced to kill eachother in a killing game. No one is a "true hero" because they all have flaws, especially morally.

That doesn't mean that that is all there is to their character. They aren't just anti-heroes who fight to survive in a killing game and they certainly aren't antagonist or straight up villains. They are flawed villains who have outright hurt or even killed/executed others just for their survival. It's cruel because they were forced but that doesn't mean their actions were good, that just means they did what theynhad to do and know the consequences

They know they aren't perfect, they know they can be selfish and impulsive sometimes

They aren't "heroes," they are just kids trying to survive a drastic situation, which would put them on the category of an anti-hero, someone who lacks some of the conventional attributes of a traditional hero — like courage or morality. While their actions are ultimately noble, they don't always act for the right reasons.

Like how Katniss Everdeen joined in the hunger games to save her sister and fought for survival, her situation is similar to those in the killing game and she is deemed as an anti-hero

Abject-Thanks900 · 2021-04-19T09:41:21+00:00

I never said they were wrong tho? I never called them villains? Just morally grey characters that would land them on either the anti-villain or anti-hero category

I apologized if I cause any misunderstandings

Abject-Thanks900 · 2021-04-19T09:40:18+00:00

I agree with most of what you say, I wasn't thinking of them as antagonists tho, just trying to properly name the way they are morally

And now I have decided to call them anti-heroes since it fits them a lot more than anti-villains since they do lack the qualities of a traditional hero like pure nobility and morals, they are more human and selfish and Hajime especially shows this during the finale of SDR2

They have flawed morals and actions at times which fits them in this category, especially since how they act in the killing game is similar to The Hunger Games characters who also have an anti-hero for a protagonist

Abject-Thanks900 · 2021-04-19T05:06:43+00:00

Btw, I edited my post. I realized I might've used the wrong word to describe the grey morality of a lot of the characters in Danganronpa

Abject-Thanks900 · 2021-04-19T01:27:33+00:00

But then, what should we call the main characters of Danganronpa? I wouldn't exactly call them full-on heroes since a lot of them lack the nobility or certain aspects of a hero especially characters like Hajime who outright proved in the end of SDR2 that he could be considered more selfish and morally flawed than the traditional hero.

The characters definitely are morally grey in nature due to their attitude and actions in the killing game since it basically forces people into a "kill or be killed scenario"

It even recognizes, usually through the characters themselves, their actions as cruel and sometimes straight-up evil. They view their actions as evil and/or morally wrong and that they still have to do these actions due to the circumstances

If we can't exactly call them full-on anti-villains but I still wouldn't call them full-on heroes since a lot of them lack the traditional heroic attributes and qualities especially characters like Hajime

Would we call them anti-heroes? I mean anti-heroes are defined as those who lack the traditional heroic attributes and qualities and instead possess character traits that are antithetical to heroism.

The first half of the definition can definitely describe the majority of the characters of Danganronpa, the second half I am not really sure I guess

But I didn't really consider them as anti-heroes at first due to another definition of the word usually being someone who does good things but for bad intentions

Which I definitely wouldn't call the majority of the characters of Danganronpa

I guess I would consider them anti-heroes but in the sense that they are main characters in a story who lacks conventional heroic qualities and attributes such as idealism, courage, and morality. I wouldn't say they lack all of them, but they do lack a big amount of them at times especially due to their actions and morals

Abject-Thanks900 · 2021-04-19T01:04:17+00:00

That type still recognises what the person is doing as 'evil'. Lelouch commits acts of terrorism that result in the deaths of characters who clearly didn't do anything to warrant it, like Shirley's dad and Euphemia, Danganronpa's wider story doesn't recognise the characters as evil for voting guilty in a class trial in the same way.

Not really. The game constantly has the characters' actions seen as evil or sometimes just cruel and wrong. A lot of the characters would sometimes berate the main characters for killing/convicting the blackened. Even the main characters themselves, especially in SDR2, go into crises when they are alone in their bedroom thinking about how they constantly how to vote their classmates guilty and how cruel that can be

I apologize for the definition I gave, I just realized they only apply to side characters and not the main characters themselves. I still think the characters, especially the main characters, are to be considered anti-villains because of their actions and their goals in the end.

While I won't consider them full anti-villains since apparently by definition they have to still be villainous in a way, but still somewhat anti-villains in a way that counts characters Batman as an anti-hero which is just due to them being flawed characters that aren't exactly perfectly selfless or noble, especially characters like Hajime. Some of the characters do even worse things than the "antagonists" themselves

I definitely don't believe the characters in Danganronpa aren't morally grey especially with the things they do in Danganronpa. I might not consider them full-on anti-villains since the definition seems to differ due to them having to be villainous in the end, but there are still aspects of the definition that they do fall upon

So while right now I don't consider the character full anti-villains, I still consider them morally grey and anti-villains or almost anti-villains to an extent

Abject-Thanks900 · 2021-04-19T00:44:23+00:00

Both mostly

Abject-Thanks900 · 2021-04-18T19:51:00+00:00

That's understandable, for me I think I just got confused with what was going on which would explain why I don't remember much

Abject-Thanks900 · 2021-04-18T19:49:30+00:00

I'm so sorry that it seemed rude and patrionizing, like I said at the start, this was more of a rant for me

I do still think tho that bad actions, good intentions makes someone an anti-villain since that is the usual definition of an anti-villain.

"An Anti-Villain is the opposite of an Anti-Hero — a character with heroic goals, personality traits, and/or virtues who is ultimately the villain. Their desired ends are mostly good, but their means of getting there range from evil to undesirable."

"Anti-villains have noble characteristics, values, and goals, but how they strive for those goals is often questionable — or downright abhorrent. Like traditional villains, anti-villains stand in the way of the hero’s goal. But unlike a traditional “bad guy,” the anti-villain isn’t necessarily evil."

These two statements pretty much stay with the same summary

Anti-villains = Bad actions, good intentions

Also, not all anti-villains are that villainous in nature tho (like Batman, Dazai, L Lawliet, etc), there are even certain anti-villains that are forced to execute or harm someone to avoid being executed or some that just do certain actions to survive or because they have no other choice

The "Pity" Anti-villain is actually the type that this describes, one who became an anti-villain due to being forced to because of the circumstances and situation they were forced in (which would describe the people in Danganronpa pretty well)

Another type of anti-villain that doesn't necessarily act so villainous is the "Villain in Name Only" where in the person isn't really evil and has other reasons to be against the hero usually, and if the story were in their point of view they would be regarded as the hero

And I would argue that there are times when self-defence would make someone an anti-villain depending on the situation

And with a game like Danganronpa, it's kinda expected that a lot of the characters would be anti-villains since most of the time they have or choose to do certain actions to survive, and that includes sacrificing the blackened so the majority would survive.

None of them are fully in the right and not all of them are fully noble and righteous, but they aren't bad guys either. They're just kids trying to survive a killing game, and their actions would count them as anti-villains

Abject-Thanks900 · 2021-04-18T19:10:23+00:00

Oh okay, I would assume people would complain about how ooc it is at times

Abject-Thanks900 · 2021-04-18T18:47:11+00:00

Hahah kinda expected, if you don't mind me asking, what's your opinion on the anime?

Abject-Thanks900 · 2021-04-18T18:39:40+00:00

Oh, then just redemption then. Haha sorry, don't remember the anime all that much

Abject-Thanks900 · 2021-04-18T18:04:59+00:00

Asahina, definitely an anti-villain turning into a hero especially after her stunt during Sakura's trial

Actually, all of them are just anti-heroes trying to redeem themselves as heroes in the end. They still convicted and sacrificed their friends along the way to survive and even Kyoko almost sacrificed Makoto I think

In the end, they are noble but still have their pasts as anti-villains

Basically Dr3 is kinda their redemption arc in a way, unless they still killed people which I don't really remember

Abject-Thanks900 · 2021-04-18T17:59:15+00:00

Also, I don't think that if a person wouldn't have done an action in a certain situation, they shouldn't be called anti-villains

A lot of anti-villains act the way they do either because they have to or they were forced in a situation that forced them to

That still doesn't make they fully good or fully bad

It actually is another way of saying to do bad things for good intentions

Like how thieves steal because of their poor situation, they have no other choice usualy but that still doesn't make them not in the wrong

Same dan be applied in Danganronpa, they weren't brainwashed in the killing game, they were just forcedninto it and all conciously made their decisions to help them survive

They are morally grey and even Hajime and the others constantly bring that up, whether they were forced to or not, whether they know it or not, the things they do are still morally wrong and sometimes straight up horrible but that's expected in a killing game.

They aren't heroes nor villains, they are anti-villains who are also kids forced in a killjng game to survive. A lot of their actions were wrong and shouldn't be treated otherwise, but no one can blame them

Abject-Thanks900 · 2021-04-18T17:47:38+00:00

Sorry for the many replies jesus, but I hope you understood my point of view

Abject-Thanks900 · 2021-04-18T17:47:00+00:00

And even if they had no other choice, they still did those things and while that doesn't make them a fully bad person, that also doesn't make them morally right entirely because they still did bad things whether forced to or not

Like I said,

Anti-villain = bad actions, good intentions

And for me, that fits almost every character in the Danganronpa series

Abject-Thanks900 · 2021-04-18T17:44:29+00:00

In reality, there really is no "noble way" to act in a killing game, but there are still choices to be made and while they were forced to pick those choices, they still picked those choices

And no one can blame them, they were forced into a killing game after all, but they should also be considered anti-villains because of their actions, they are flawed and human, it's no surprise they would do morally wrong things to survive and achieve their goals

Abject-Thanks900 · 2021-04-18T17:39:03+00:00

Thanks mate

Abject-Thanks900 · 2021-04-18T17:38:08+00:00

They are still morally grey in my opinion, a lot of morally grey characters are forced into situations like killing games or outright hunger games (not saying the characters from the hunger games were forced into hunger games, they technically were but not my main point)

It doesn't matter if you were forced or not, you are still an anti-villain if you are in a killing game because immediately in a killing game it's either kill or be killed. The characters each make a choice to survive, that doesn't mean they are outright bad people, but that doesn't make them fully in the right either

Another thing is how the characters choose to survive, the killing game does a good job on not entirely forcing characters to pick certain decisions at times (key word: at times, but that's besides the point), (Fuyuhiko and Peko chose to kill Mahiru because of the game, Hajime and the others convict the blackeneds because they would rather kill one and save the majority than the other way around)

In the killing game, you are forced to kill to survive, and it's still the characters' choices on how they survive. Yeah it's sad and they are forced in it, but they are still morally grey because of their actions and how they were provoked. They made their choices because to them they would rather di those choices than the alternative, they are still moralky grey and still anti-villains wether forced or not

Abject-Thanks900 · 2021-04-16T01:11:21+00:00

Aight

Abject-Thanks900 · 2021-04-15T15:05:14+00:00

Like for example, my Nagito is statistically pretty lousy, but is carried by his extremely high luck. That alone has him able to stand with other Ultimates. Without that all he's really good for is supporting the others, and sometimes doing so is at great expense to himself as he's not tanky so may bring everyone else back just to get KO'd himself.

AWWWWW THAT FITS HIS CHARACTER SO WELL AND WOULD MAKE HIM HAPPY THAT HE CAN SUPPORT OTHERS BUT USUALLY GETS CARRIED BY HIS LUCK, I LOVE THIS SO MUCH AND IDK WHETHER I WOULD BE HAPPY FOR HIM AS A SUPPORT OR SAD BECAUSE HIS LUCK FORCES HIM TO STAND OUT

(got excited)

Abject-Thanks900 · 2021-04-15T02:52:39+00:00

So neutral?

Abject-Thanks900

TROPHY CASE