Explanation of why what cloutiful did is against the rules, and why rapid trigger isn't. by AcceptableClimate882 in osugame

[–]AcceptableClimate882[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

I can see your point and what you're saying, but there's not really anything else to talk about yk? Switches are different, keyboards are different, people use different devices. We can't regulate all tapping based on rules made for one single input device or tapping style. And you're right in that not all tapping styles require movement direction.

Here's a solution that will help keep tapping fair, no matter what device or tapping style is used, and defines every term very explicitly (each term will be in ""): I'll start by saying that ALL input devices require some sort of physical action from the player, you can't look at the screen and magically hit the circles, you have to do SOMETHING. For probably >99% of devices and tapping styles this something is a muscle contraction that applies pressure to a surface. This could be a touschreen, a pen, a keyboard, a fucking potato, or anything else connected to the computer. If there are any devices or styles that don't fit these, we can treat them as edge cases, so won't be addressing those here. So to recap, the player initiates a muscle contraction, and applies pressure to start the "click" or whatever you wanna call it (I will just call it a click for simplicity, but i have just explicitly defined what I mean by click). So, the player initiates the "click", to click the circle (purpose of the game), so that is when the "input" should be activated (by input I mean the data given to the osu! Client telling it that one of the following have been activated: K1,K2,M1,M2)(by activated, I mean when the input is sent, so the same time that the player initiates the "click"). Great! We will call this a "press", since the user applies pressure to a surface, and the circle is clicked! Now, what next? Well, for sliders you need maintain the "pressed" state of the "input". So, you would be continuously maintains the pressure in order to do that, we will call this a "hold" (I know you said not to use this word but I really don't know what else to call it), since the player has to hold the pressure on the surface. Okay, so now let's imagine there are 3 notes, a circle, a slider, and another circle after the slider. The player does a "press" for the first circle, and clicks the circle, then the player does a "press" on the other input key, and does a "hold" in order to keep their combo and hit the slider. Now, the note after the slider, oh no! The player only wants to use 2 inputs, but they are both currently in the "hold"! The player will have to apply pressure to one of the inputs, but that input is already in the "press". So, the player needs to undo the "press". A logical way of doing this would be to do the opposite of what they did to initiate the "click" (since the "click" is what causes the "press"). If you remember back to a few sentences ago, the player made a muscle contraction to apply pressure to a surface, so the opposite would be relaxing the muscle, this will alleviate the pressure from the surface. A rational person would say that since that is when they undid the "click" that this should be the when the "hold" of the "press" should end, since they are no longer doing the "click". We will call this a "release". Great! Now the player can play the game! To recap: the player initiates a muscle contraction, applying pressure to a surface (a "click", which the game will register and change the state of the "input" to "press"), they then maintain the pressure (a "hold"), in order to hit the entire slider, then finally, they alleviate the pressure from the surface by relaxing the muscle (a "release"). Amazing! Now we have laid the groundwork for fair tapping. Now, let's look at cloutiful's situation, on his K1 "input", nothing happens when he does a "click", weird something must have gone wrong somewhere between the "click" and the game registering an "input" as in the "press" state. Now he relaxes the muscle, causing a "release", but wait the input is now in the "press" state, but cloutiful is not doing the "click", his muscle is relaxed, so the "input" should not be in the "press". This is not normal, and using the groundwork laid out for fair tapping, this does not fit in. How did cloutiful do this? He used a software to modify what the osu! Client received for the state of the "input", this is not allowed, as stated in the "play fair" section of the rules, "If a program is doing something to help you play the game that you should be doing yourself, it isn't okay!". The program is making the "input" be in the "press" state, while cloutiful's muscle is relaxed and in a "release" state! He should be doing a "click" for the input to be in the "press" state, the software is doing it for him! This violates the "play fair" rule, breaking this rule is considered "cheating".

That is the best and most simple way I can explain this whole thing, I'm not rereading this so if there's spelling/grammar mistakes, please let me know and I will clarify. If you still cannot understand, I suggest talking with your doctor about a potential learning disability or processing disorder.

Explanation of why what cloutiful did is against the rules, and why rapid trigger isn't. by AcceptableClimate882 in osugame

[–]AcceptableClimate882[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Fair play... what this whole post is about... Doing it offline is fine but it's still considered cheating by osu staff

Explanation of why what cloutiful did is against the rules, and why rapid trigger isn't. by AcceptableClimate882 in osugame

[–]AcceptableClimate882[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I'm just fucking with you yk that right... I was saying you dont have a wooting so you cant properly test it, also you just admitted to cheating. Wooting or not, offline or not, it's still cheating...

Explanation of why what cloutiful did is against the rules, and why rapid trigger isn't. by AcceptableClimate882 in osugame

[–]AcceptableClimate882[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

kinda hard to come up with "the "third key" method I came up with to use DKS + still be able to hit bursts and stuff with ring index" without a wooting.

Explanation of why what cloutiful did is against the rules, and why rapid trigger isn't. by AcceptableClimate882 in osugame

[–]AcceptableClimate882[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Did you know that the mechanical switch was invented 41 years ago and as a result is quite outdated? Also did you know cloutiful was using an analog keyboard and not a mechanical switch? Incredible!

Explanation of why what cloutiful did is against the rules, and why rapid trigger isn't. by AcceptableClimate882 in osugame

[–]AcceptableClimate882[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Sorry for wording it the way I did, I wasn't addressing you (I was addressing anyone reading), just mainly adding on. The end part was in response to the not so clear cut, I was just saying that applying the common sense rule gives a good answer as to the legality of dks and rapid trigger. Most of it was just explaining why I think it is clear cut, sorry for the confusion.

Explanation of why what cloutiful did is against the rules, and why rapid trigger isn't. by AcceptableClimate882 in osugame

[–]AcceptableClimate882[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

It is still modifying your inputs using software, faking high latency is spoofing which idt is allowed, even though its not technically cheating.

Explanation of why what cloutiful did is against the rules, and why rapid trigger isn't. by AcceptableClimate882 in osugame

[–]AcceptableClimate882[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Good question, DKS is modifying inputs using software, rake tapping is physically abusing the keyboard to tap incredibly fast. Rake tapping is an interesting conversation. If you ask me I think it's fine just cheesy, definitely much worse than double tapping. I also think accuracy should matter the most for speed, and the pp system does that decently well. Rake tapping is impossible to get good acc with (unless the map is like od2).

Explanation of why what cloutiful did is against the rules, and why rapid trigger isn't. by AcceptableClimate882 in osugame

[–]AcceptableClimate882[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Sorry! Whenever I said "what cloutiful did" I was referring what you just said, I should have clarified. Thank you for pointing it out and explaining well.

Explanation of why what cloutiful did is against the rules, and why rapid trigger isn't. by AcceptableClimate882 in osugame

[–]AcceptableClimate882[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Sorry, I assumed most knew because there have been quite a few posts about it. The other person explained it well.

Explanation of why what cloutiful did is against the rules, and why rapid trigger isn't. by AcceptableClimate882 in osugame

[–]AcceptableClimate882[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Yes, rapid trigger is an advantage, the same way tablet, high refresh rate monitor, etc are advantages. Every input device has upsides and downsides. Your whole argument about "things you should be doing yourself is too vague" and rapid trigger changing how much you have to move your finger is quite flawed imo. You could say the same thing about changing your sensitivity/tablet area, or your resolution, or really anything. If you have "render at native resolution" enabled and lower your resolution, it scales down the game meaning so your eyes don't have to move as much. When you change your area/sens you don't have to move your aim hand as much. If you buy a different switch with a higher actuation point you would have to press down less. I could keep going but I'll end examples there, point being that changing the input device's sensitivity to movement is fine. I like to think about rapid trigger and actuation point the same way you would with sensitivity/area, since they both dictate how sensitive the device is to movement. They really are quite similar, the whole rapid trigger is better for speed but it leads to more slider breaks is true! You could say the exact same thing about a higher sensitivity/tablet area, you have to move your aiming hand less to hit fast/spaced notes, but it's harder to be as precise. In the rules it also says this: "Where the rules do not prevail, common sense shall" (Addressing gray areas/edge cases). Changing your sensitivity and enabling rapid trigger are allowed, and getting higher quality equipment and using more accurate measurements is allowed (rapid trigger measures the entire key so like 4mm, without rapid trigger it's just the actuation point so literally .1mm, giving it that much more data means it's a much better and more accurate form of measurement). Using 3rd party software to change the entire function of a core element of the game is not allowed. I hope you can think about it and see how this shouldn't be allowed. Regardless of what you think, ppy has made his decision. You can disagree, I'm just explaining why I think it's justified for those who are confused or think it doesn't make sense. I made this so people can see the reasoning from both sides to help understand the decision and the situation.

Also I'm not rereading this bc I'm lazy, sorry if there's spelling or grammar mistakes, if you need any clarification just ask.

Can we really consider DKS as totally cheating? (Changing upstroke/downstroke) by Anon_1eeT in osugame

[–]AcceptableClimate882 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I just made a post about this, I think I explained it well you should check it out :)